Observations About Real America

[Dreadnaught]

Slow summer news, so why not put this here.

I am back from two weeks in several different locations in Real America, as well as a foray into the Peoples Redistributionist Democratic Republic of California.

Seems fitting to jot down a few observations for discussion:

+ Our intra-national and international seaways are fascinating- Besides the intra-coastal waterway, we have the Erie Canal and the Champlain Canal. But we also have the St. Lawrence River between us and Canada. It's pretty big and neat.

I got an up-close view of some of the heavy freight shipping going through the St. Lawrence and it's quite neat (and perhaps depressing) to think about how much goods we choose to ship via trucks, when a lot of it could be shipped by, well, ship from Chicago to the rest of the world via freighter.

+ Americans like conspiracy theories too- While talking with some Real Americans, I was presented with two pretty ludicrous conspiracy theories about September 11 and an elite Ivy League institution. You would think I was in a banlieue.

+ I can sorta understand watching basketball- I normally don't give a shit, but when there's little to do besides petty arson and watching freighter traffic go by, going to a bar and watching basketball can be kinda fun.

+ Fun conversation:

- "Hi, I'm Gus"
- "Hey, I'm Dreadnaught."
- "Actually, my name is Wayne-o. Wanna come golfing with us on Tuesday?"

+ The American Southwest- I'm not convinced this region is really viable. There's not enough water. You fly over these parts of the countries and see how we've turned oil into food by planting these farms in the middle of arid spots. Then you get into the whole residential water issues and it doesn't add up.

Tolerance- Americans can be very tolerant of things like different religions, even when they have no fucking clue what is involved in those religions.

+Boom housing construction- I did a rooftop inspection while visiting someone in a relatively new home in the Southwest. It's overall solid, but there are some pretty egregious mistakes that are clearly the part of some developer rushing to build homes in the housing boom. We have a lost generation of shitty homes. Maybe avoid buying homes built between 2002 and 2010.

+ Corruption- As governments nationwide try to grow, we will have to be more vigilant than ever about corruption and a petty sense of entitlement among bureaucrats. EG building a $400 million train line that conveniently goes between the state capital and the 60-mile-away suburbs where many government workers live.

+ Stereotypes about LA- I befriended a really nice girl on a plane from LA to San Francisco. My stereotypes about LA may be off, even though this girl isn't much of a fan of LA. But I could never live there. Traffic. Cars.

+ San Francisco- As ever, filled with arrogant wenuses. But they have a very high tolerance for disorderly public drunkeness.

Also, I watched the world cup game against Ghana from a Thai sports bar. The only time anyone's ever heard San Franciscans chanting "USA USA" and wearing American flags was when Obama was elected and before the World Cup. One girl near me got so excited (and drunk) cheering she suddenly vomited on the bar while cheering before our only goal against Ghana.

+ Gay Pride- Stumbled upon a giant Pride Week parade in Dolores Park in SF. Folks were selling pot brownies in the open. It was overall lots of fun, but the thing with gay-pride events is lots of people express their pride by getting naked or doing sexual things in public. These people are usually very old or very unattractive.

+ Wine- It was fracking brilliant of us to start making fine wines instead of relying on the French. It's amazing when societies develop their own products/symbols of cultural snobbery.

Nudity- Public indecency laws can sometimes be vague. EG if you are on an island naked on the shore, and a tourist boat motors by every day...is that against the law? Unclear according to some.

End transmission. End WikiFist.

[GGT]

Nice ramble.

The Real America also has the Inter-Coastal Waterways. If you like water infrastructure and transportation, you'd love a boat ride going through river locks alongside big barges. Or taking a mast height under bridge-master lifts. Amazing systems, also a bit scary at times.

We've had great domestic wines outside France or Napa Valley for decades. The east coast produces some great grapes. Where have you been?

Are you the same Dread that really, truly, almost accepted a job offer in California?

[Dreadnaught]

I did accept a job there, then was offered the same job somewhere else and then struggled to choose. I wouldn't be able to handle San Francisco, but it's interesting to visit for a while. Same with Real America.

Why do you suppose the US can be relatively tolerant and relatively ignorant and racist at the same time?

[GGT]

Why do you suppose the US can be relatively tolerant and relatively ignorant and racist at the same time?

American Exceptionalism?

Your Tolerance section was a bit short, so not really sure what you meant. But I think we have a unique situation being in such a huge, diverse land. My guess is we tend to view "visitors" as more "like us" than "strangers to be avoided" based on quick visuals. In certain areas that means simply being light or dark skinned, in other areas it's about clothing. In the southwest that can mean a cowboy hat instead of a turban. After the visual check, there's the language or accent check.

Some seem to think they can ID a Muslim or Jew by their appearance, or a Mexican from a Spaniard by their accent, and are surprised to learn they can't. Is that what you meant?

[Dreadnaught]

That's a pretty good explanation actually.

[Flixy]

I did accept a job there, then was offered the same job somewhere else and then struggled to choose. I wouldn't be able to handle San Francisco, but it's interesting to visit for a while. Same with Real America.

Why do you suppose the US can be relatively tolerant and relatively ignorant and racist at the same time?

So you are leaving NY?

Also, waterways are pretty neat. I live next to a canal and big sea locks, and near the Ghent and Antwerp harbors. It's fascinating, I like seeing it

[Dreadnaught]

Not at all, this was years ago that I had that job offer.

That's pretty cool -- how big are the ships that come through?

[Flixy]

through the locks, maximum depth 12.50meters, 265 meters long, 37 meters wide, this kind of stuff

(one of those actually rammed the bridge a few years back, causing a lot of damage.

And Antwerp is of course a huge harbor, and this is apparently the biggest ship there so far:

[GGT]

I love that stuff.

Dread, haven't you ever watched the big ships in NY or NJ harbors? Ohio river lock channels aren't too far away either.

[earthJoker]

Father Rhein only let ships of this size access Switzerland

[Dreadnaught]

I love that stuff.

Dread, haven't you ever watched the big ships in NY or NJ harbors? Ohio river lock channels aren't too far away either.

Yeah, but nowadays most of the major shipping traffic comes to/from Staten Island and Elizabeth, NJ, which are down the harbor from where most people live. There isn't a ton of commercial traffic up and down the Hudson compared to what there could be. Plus, while I'm often just a few blocks from the Hudson, I don't actually see it because of all the buildings and such. And when I go to other areas, I'm on the subway and unable to see the river I'm going under.

Father Rhein only let ships of this size access Switzerland
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/SchiffeMaxau.jpg/800px-SchiffeMaxau.jpg[/IMG]

That's pretty big for the Rhine!

[EyeKhan]

I am back from two weeks in several different locations in Real America, as well as a foray into the Peoples Redistributionist Democratic Republic of California.

I got an up-close view of some of the heavy freight shipping going through the St. Lawrence and it's quite neat (and perhaps depressing) to think about how much goods we choose to ship via trucks, when a lot of it could be shipped by, well, ship from Chicago to the rest of the world via freighter.

Its all about transit time. Ships are cheap transport and easier on the environment but they take a lot longer to get stuff from point A to point B. And that means someone has to own the goods being shipped for that time, which means a corresponding chunk of their capital is tied up for that period of time, which means they can't use that money for something else and if its borrowed money, they have to pay interest.

+ I can sorta understand watching basketball- I normally don't give a shit, but when there's little to do besides petty arson and watching freighter traffic go by, going to a bar and watching basketball can be kinda fun.

You make me envy your free time.

+ The American Southwest- I'm not convinced this region is really viable. There's not enough water. You fly over these parts of the countries and see how we've turned oil into food by planting these farms in the middle of arid spots. Then you get into the whole residential water issues and it doesn't add up.

From what I've read - which is pretty dated - much of that agriculture depends on ancient aquifers that are apparently not being replenished nearly as fast as they're being drained. They keep making noise about building a giant pipe-line from Lake Michigan down to Arizona or something.... we Great Lakes dwellers say "fuck you, go live somewhere else bitches."

+ Stereotypes about LA- I befriended a really nice girl on a plane from LA to San Francisco. My stereotypes about LA may be off, even though this girl isn't much of a fan of LA. But I could never live there. Traffic. Cars.

I'm wondering about your use of the word stereotype and subsequent surprise that it might not be entirely true... You know what a stereotype is, right?

The only time anyone's ever heard San Franciscans chanting "USA USA" and wearing American flags was when Obama was elected and before the World Cup.

Honing your bullshit for your Fox News job interview?

It was overall lots of fun, but the thing with gay-pride events is lots of people express their pride by getting naked or doing sexual things in public. These people are usually very old or very unattractive.

I think those sorts of activities are self-defeating. My baseline approach to gayness is I don't give a crap what people do in the privacy of their own home so long as they maintain their property and don't unreasonably annoy their neighbors. Being ultra-gay-sexual (or ultra-straight-sexual for that matter) in a public parade, is, IMO, unreasonably annoying.

+ Wine- It was fracking brilliant of us to start making fine wines instead of relying on the French. It's amazing when societies develop their own products/symbols of cultural snobbery.

Did you go to Napa? That's a nice trip, though at your age and with your new cynical midset I'm not sure you'd like it much. Also, I'm not sure the word snobbery is appropriate. Sometimes the ignorant use this to describe "fine tuned" culture they don't understand, like the universe of wine. Just because its mind bogglingly complex and non-intuitive and in the realm of those with seemingly too much expendable income doesn't mean its snobby.

EDIT: BTW, if you want some more Real America, spend a long weekend at a rural campground in the Midwest.


EDIT2: I think you're too hard on Wikipedia. Analysis has shown its more accurate than the Encyclopedia Britannica. So long as you're avoiding hot button issues like anything political, then the source should be very reliable.

[Ominous Gamer]

Tampa has a port that ships an ungodly amount of basic building materials out of the state. We even have 2 rather large, radioactive, phosphate islands because of it.

These quick trips Dread is taking, IMO, appear to jade him more than if he just didn't go at all. Bringing up petty arson because you personally were bored? Dismissing stereotypes because of 1 person? He showed the same problem with his trip to China if I remember correctly. Taking a vacation? Thats awesome, but you're a tourist, not a reasearcher. You aren't spending nearly enough time at or in the correct locations to come away with a opinion thats technically any better than the one you already had.

Isn't most American wine (especially from the West Coast) the result of illegally importing the grandfather vines from countries like France?

[EyeKhan]

These quick trips Dread is taking, IMO, appear to jade him more than if he just didn't go at all. Bringing up petty arson because you personally were bored? Dismissing stereotypes because of 1 person? He showed the same problem with his trip to China if I remember correctly.

He may have sold his soul. Probably Lilo's got it now.

Isn't most American wine (especially from the West Coast) the result of illegally importing the grandfather vines from countries like France?

Illegal? Since when can you own a genome? Dammit!!!!

[Loki]

The intolerance some of the lefties here show toward people who dare to change their views never ceases to amaze me.

[Ominous Gamer]

Illegal? Since when can you own a genome? Dammit!!!!

America bans a lot of vegetation imports. Usually under some sort of possible to spread disease reason.

[EyeKhan]

The intolerance some of the lefties here show toward people who dare to change their views never ceases to amaze me.

It's not intolerance, it's mourning....

[Loki]

Shouldn't you be praising his open-mindedness? Or is open-mindedness a synonym for holding leftist beliefs?

[EyeKhan]

Shouldn't you be praising his open-mindedness? Or is open-mindedness a synonym for holding leftist beliefs?

Well, liberal thinking tends to be vastly more open vs. conservative, so you do have a point. And you have it backwards, his mind is closing, unfortunately. That's what's making all of us open-minded types so sad. <sigh> You wouldn't understand. . . . .

[Ominous Gamer]

The southwest comment reminded me of this. Watch as Lake Mead is slowing dieing/drying.



Our dustbowl is worried about a Super Highway, what we need is a super irrigation ditch.

[Flixy]

The intolerance some of the lefties here show toward people who dare to change their views never ceases to amaze me.

Hey! I'm a leftie, and I only agreed that ships are cool!

[Loki]

I did say some.

[Nessus]

I did say some.

And I didn't even post in this thread yet

[LittleFuzzy]

The intolerance some of the lefties here show toward people who dare to change their views never ceases to amaze me.

For some reason, apostasy sets people off way more than original opposition. I figure it's because of unconscious "one true way" syndrome which carries the implicit assumption that people can't "lose" the Truth once exposed to it. When they do, it raises all sorts of awkward and uncomfortable issues which tend to get rationalized away by belligerence.

[EyeKhan]

For some reason, apostasy sets people off way more than original opposition. I figure it's because of unconscious "one true way" syndrome which carries the implicit assumption that people can't "lose" the Truth once exposed to it. When they do, it raises all sorts of awkward and uncomfortable issues which tend to get rationalized away by belligerence.

No no no. Good people hate to see good people go bad.

[Being]

And I didn't even post in this thread yet

Me either.

[']['ear]

Is the thesis of this thread "life in interesting and weird?"

[Hazir]

Can somebody tell me where to check my sense of humour so I can write in this topic too ?

[Dreadnaught]

You make me envy your free time.
[...]

Honing your bullshit for your Fox News job interview?
[...]
Did you go to Napa? That's a nice trip, though at your age and with your new cynical midset I'm not sure you'd like it much. Also, I'm not sure the word snobbery is appropriate. Sometimes the ignorant use this to describe "fine tuned" culture they don't understand, like the universe of wine. Just because its mind bogglingly complex and non-intuitive and in the realm of those with seemingly too much expendable income doesn't mean its snobby.

1) This was an exceptional few weeks. I effectively had no boss and I still have an abundance of vacation days to burn, plus I had business outside of the home region. All combined into a big trip.

2) You clearly haven't spent much time in San Francisco. What I said was actually said to me by a friend who lives in SF. And I think he's honestly pretty right.

3) Actually, those descriptors you use do fit the word snobby pretty well. But I think it may be more accurate to say that us creating tiers of wine-making regions and such is fascinating. We just up and built our own winemaking tradition, at Napa ended up on top. And now people come from all over the world to try the wines and drive around in a minivan with their friends and co-workers, drinking and drinking and taking in the scenery and eating oysters (which is fine, because one of us is Muslim and doesn't drink so we're all gravy to get home).

EDIT2: I think you're too hard on Wikipedia. Analysis has shown its more accurate than the Encyclopedia Britannica. So long as you're avoiding hot button issues like anything political, then the source should be very reliable.

We shouldn't have this discussion.

These quick trips Dread is taking, IMO, appear to jade him more than if he just didn't go at all. Bringing up petty arson because you personally were bored? Dismissing stereotypes because of 1 person? He showed the same problem with his trip to China if I remember correctly. Taking a vacation? Thats awesome, but you're a tourist, not a reasearcher. You aren't spending nearly enough time at or in the correct locations to come away with a opinion thats technically any better than the one you already had.

I didn't do an petty arson, but I actually have a decent amount of experience with petty arson in the region I was in, which is why I said it's something bored teenagers do. I didn't pretend I'm a researcher. I said I was making observations. Which is what people do all the time.

The southwest comment reminded me of this. Watch as Lake Mead is slowing dieing/drying.

[yt]-xwquYkf43o

That's fracking incredible.

Is the thesis of this thread "life in interesting and weird?"

Yes, possibly.

Can somebody tell me where to check my sense of humour so I can write in this topic too ?

I does not understand.

Mild Rule 12 on me BTW.

[EyeKhan]

3) But I think it may be more accurate to say that us creating tiers of wine-making regions and such is fascinating. We just up and built our own winemaking tradition, at Napa ended up on top. And now people come from all over the world to try the wines and drive around in a minivan with their friends and co-workers, drinking and drinking and taking in the scenery and eating oysters (which is fine, because one of us is Muslim and doesn't drink so we're all gravy to get home).

Every tradition, every industry, every cultural whatever has to begin at some point. The real reason California's got a strong wine industry today is because the climate there's good for it and somebody who knew grapes noticed.