The Bad Apples of Baltimore

[Aimless]

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/10/1241842...artment-report

The Baltimore Police Department is a complete and utter disaster.

That’s the only possible takeaway from reading the US Department of Justice’s 163-page report into Baltimore police, leaked on Tuesday. The report found major flaws in even the most basic modern policing practices, from arrests to use of force to basic interactions with the community. To make it worse, these findings are compounded by what appears to be purposeful, disproportionate targeting of the city’s black residents.

“Racially disparate impact is present at every stage of BPD’s enforcement actions, from the initial decision to stop individuals on Baltimore streets to searches, arrests, and uses of force,” the report concluded. “These racial disparities, along with evidence suggesting intentional discrimination, erode the community trust that is critical to effective policing.”

The Justice Department’s conclusions come after an investigation that lasted more than a year, launched swiftly after protests and riots over the death of Freddie Gray while in Baltimore police custody and, more broadly, over racial disparities in policing and the criminal justice system. Federal investigators pored through data and police reports, as well as attended in-person events, including ride-alongs, to conduct their investigation.

The report essentially validates many of the protesters’ claims. Baltimore police stop people for essentially no reason, particularly black residents. They are far too quick to use force. Charges are often dropped due to a lack of merit for any prosecution. Cops regularly violate people’s rights, including those protected by the First Amendment and Fourth Amendment. And virtually everyone is aware of these types of problems — officials within and outside the police department, members of the community, and even police union representatives acknowledge the desperate need for reform.

The Justice Department is also clear in where the blame lies: This is not the story of a few bad apples in the police department; these are systemic issues propagated by leadership, poor guidance, shoddy training, and essentially no accountability to speak of — and these issues go back to at least the 1990s, when city leaders in Baltimore stated “zero tolerance” anti-crime policies. To remedy these issues, federal officials plan to set up a “consent decree” in which they would oversee reforms at the Baltimore Police Department with the cooperation of local officials.

(Baltimore isn’t the only city under investigation by the Justice Department. So are more than two dozen others.)

Here are nine findings from the report that speak to the absolute disaster that is the Baltimore Police Department:

[...]

And the report: https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho...partment.0.pdf

Bizarre:

BPD disproportionately stops African-American pedestrians. Citywide, BPD stopped African-American residents three times as often as white residents after controlling for the population of the area in which the stops occurred. In each of BPD’s nine police districts, African Americans accounted for a greater share of BPD’s stops than the population living in the district. And BPD is far more likely to subject individual African Americans to multiple stops in short periods of time. In the five and a half years of data we examined, African Americans accounted for 95 percent of the 410 individuals BPD stopped at least 10 times. One African American man in his mid-fifties was stopped 30 times in less than 4 years. Despite these repeated intrusions, none of the 30 stops resulted in a citation or criminal charge.

[...]

One telling example: During a ride-along with Justice Department officials, a sergeant told a patrol officer to stop a group of young black men. The officer protested, saying he had no valid reason for the stop. The supervisor responded, “Then make something up” — again, in the middle of a ride-along with federal investigators.

[...]

This suggests of course that BPD isn't good at framing people by planting evidence

D'oh.

[Lewkowski]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...101-story.html

"More than 90 percent of the homicide victims this year were boys or men, more than 90 percent were black, and more than half were between the ages of 18 and 30 — reflecting an urban reality that residents and civil rights activists say is devoid of legitimate job opportunities and caught up in the often-violent drug trade."

"Arrests plummeted immediately following the unrest, and some officers said they were afraid to do their jobs given the charges filed against their peers in Gray's death, according to the police union."

BLM protesters and prosecutor with an agenda lead to fewer arrests. Leads to more black men killed by black men. This is the legacy of BLM.

[Aimless]

Irrelevant.

[Loki]

I guess racism and gross misconduct are ok as long as they're directed against a high-crime community.

Lewk, does this read like a few bad apples: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0db3be07c7e8a?

[Lewkowski]

I guess racism and gross misconduct are ok as long as they're directed against a high-crime community.

Lewk, does this read like a few bad apples: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0db3be07c7e8a?

I don't have the context for the numbers. Generally speaking most of that is pretty awful and individuals should absolutely be held accountable. On the balance however if you're black your far more likely to be killed by someone other than a police officer. So the unconstitutional searches, the illegal planting of evidence and some of the other bad stuff needs to be dealt - that isn't in question. What is in question is what has the greater impact. Clearly you think (based on post history at least) that police abuse against blacks is several orders of magnitude greater than criminal abuse against blacks. The statistics don't back your side up.

[RandBlade]

Irrelevant.

Police not doing their jobs leading to more victims is irrelevant? You are crazy.

[Aimless]

Police not doing their jobs leading to more victims is irrelevant? You are crazy.

Please read before commenting.

[RandBlade]

I read the word irrelevant. If you can't be arsed to type more than one word its possible you weren't clear.

[Aimless]

I read the word irrelevant. If you can't be arsed to type more than one word its possible you weren't clear.

Please read the articles and the report that are the subjects of this thread before commenting. Please also stop embarrassing yourself.

[RandBlade]

I read them, it reminded me of Gotham City. Still don't see how what Lewk wrote is "irrelevant" - it is completely On Topic so you are the one embarrassing yourself.

[Aimless]

What do you believe to be the topic, and what relevance do you believe Lewk's post has to that topic?

[Steely Glint]

BLM protesters and prosecutor with an agenda lead to fewer arrests. Leads to more black men killed by black men. This is the legacy of BLM.

Maybe if they arrested people doing murders instead of hassling/arresting/shooting random black men for being in their line of sight while they were in a shitty mood, that would be better.

[Loki]

I don't have the context for the numbers. Generally speaking most of that is pretty awful and individuals should absolutely be held accountable. On the balance however if you're black your far more likely to be killed by someone other than a police officer. So the unconstitutional searches, the illegal planting of evidence and some of the other bad stuff needs to be dealt - that isn't in question. What is in question is what has the greater impact. Clearly you think (based on post history at least) that police abuse against blacks is several orders of magnitude greater than criminal abuse against blacks. The statistics don't back your side up.

Stop conflating issues to deflect blame for the police. The police is a public institution and must be held accountable as such. Private individuals doing bad things is certainly regrettable, but entirely irrelevant to the proper functioning of government. Perhaps the government should confiscate all guns due to a disproportionate number of gun owners being in crazy white supremacist militias? It's easy to justify discrimination against entire groups as long as you happen to not be a member of any of them.

We also had this discussion in another thread, but you have a warped sense of American values. We don't punish people based in the actions of their family members or those who look like them. This is what separates the US from tinpot dictatorship. I didn't leave one just to end up in another.

[Lewkowski]

Stop conflating issues to deflect blame for the police. The police is a public institution and must be held accountable as such. Private individuals doing bad things is certainly regrettable, but entirely irrelevant to the proper functioning of government. Perhaps the government should confiscate all guns due to a disproportionate number of gun owners being in crazy white supremacist militias? It's easy to justify discrimination against entire groups as long as you happen to not be a member of any of them.

We also had this discussion in another thread, but you have a warped sense of American values. We don't punish people based in the actions of their family members or those who look like them. This is what separates the US from tinpot dictatorship. I didn't leave one just to end up in another.

I've never suggested the police NOT be held accountable.

Private individuals doing bad things is more than just regrettable, it has horrible consequences. This is why it is critical for the communities where high crime is occurring to *work with the police* to help put the criminals in prison. I don't think you will find any reasonable person who thinks cops should be able to break the law willy-nilly however overreach and punishing ALL cops for the work of a minority of them leads to MORE people in those communities dying by criminals. That is the issue the folks in BLM don't understand (or don't care).

Its clear you have a strong desire to disarm the populace, that is far more tin point dictator like than any position I hold.

[RandBlade]

What do you believe to be the topic, and what relevance do you believe Lewk's post has to that topic?

The topic is the Baltimore Police department and Lewks post showed the externality of changing the actions of BPD.

[Aimless]

The topic is the Baltimore Police department and Lewks post showed the externality of changing the actions of BPD.

It doesn't, and, even if it did, it would have had little relevance to the findings of the DoJ's investigation. There is little persuasive evidence that the BPD's harmful practices have changed (the report was recently published), there is little persuasive evidence showing that recent trends in crimes in Baltimore can be directly attributed to changes in police practices, and there is no good reason to believe that stopping racially discriminatory, illegal and unconstitutional harrassment of innocent black people is associated with major negative externalities. So you're wrong in every possible way. What we have is some speculation that the BPD has cut back on whatever proactive practices they had as well as a spurious correlation between lower arrest-rates and increased crime.

The trends in crime in Baltimore can be better explained by multiple theorie,s and a more likely explanation than crime rising due to BPD suddenly not being racist asshats is the theory that BPD has--through its long-established disgusting culture encouraging misconduct and poor policing practices--helped set the stage for greater criminality as well as lit the match through the killing of Freddie Gray and the riots that resulted from that event.

The subject of the thread, btw, is not simply "the Baltimore Police Department" but rather the findings of the DoJ's investigation into the BPD.

[LittleFuzzy]

The topic is the Baltimore Police department and Lewks post showed the externality of changing the actions of BPD.

This assumes that the actions of the BPD now aren't actually contributing to the problem because the black people of Baltimore don't trust the police to protect them rather than target them. I would suggest that the current state of affairs with the BPD is actually a adding to the problem rather than keeping it more in check than it would otherwise be, as you and Lewk allege.

[Flixy]

This assumes that the actions of the BPD now aren't actually contributing to the problem because the black people of Baltimore don't trust the police to protect them rather than target them. I would suggest that the current state of affairs with the BPD is actually a adding to the problem rather than keeping it more in check than it would otherwise be, as you and Lewk allege.

That's what I was thinking too. Police not doing their jobs is indeed the problem as Rand posted, but they haven't been doing it for years.

Hey Lewk I though you are all in favour for defending the constitution, or is that just when it suits you? I guess the fourth amendment isn't as important as the second and the first only matters for people who agree with you or something?

[Enoch the Red]

Hey Lewk I though you are all in favour for defending the constitution, or is that just when it suits you? I guess the fourth amendment isn't as important as the second and the first only matters for people who agree with you or something?

I'm not sure I understand how you are ascribing that position to Lewk based on what he's posted in this thread.

As near as I can tell his position is that that behavior needs to be punished and stop.

So the unconstitutional searches, the illegal planting of evidence and some of the other bad stuff needs to be dealt - that isn't in question.

I've never suggested the police NOT be held accountable.

[Lewkowski]

That's what I was thinking too. Police not doing their jobs is indeed the problem as Rand posted, but they haven't been doing it for years.

Hey Lewk I though you are all in favour for defending the constitution, or is that just when it suits you? I guess the fourth amendment isn't as important as the second and the first only matters for people who agree with you or something?

To repeat.

I've never suggested the police NOT be held accountable.

[RandBlade]

This assumes that the actions of the BPD now aren't actually contributing to the problem because the black people of Baltimore don't trust the police to protect them rather than target them. I would suggest that the current state of affairs with the BPD is actually a adding to the problem rather than keeping it more in check than it would otherwise be, as you and Lewk allege.

I haven't alleged anything other than that flippantly dismissing other points of view as irrelevant is naive.

[Steely Glint]

I believe the position is that police who do wrong should be held accountable in some non-specific way, but that BLM shouldn't say the police are racist just because they're racist, in case it's hurts the police's feelings and they stop doing their jobs properly.

[Khendraja'aro]

I haven't alleged anything other than that flippantly dismissing other points of view as irrelevant is naive.

"naive"

[Lewkowski]

I believe the position is that police who do wrong should be held accountable in some non-specific way, but that BLM shouldn't say the police are racist just because they're racist, in case it's hurts the police's feelings and they stop doing their jobs properly.

Specific officers who have done specific things should be held accountable. Painting all police with the same brush is no different than painting all blacks with the same brush.

[Aimless]

Yeah and we've already agreed to save that kind of treatment for Muslims only

[Steely Glint]

Specific officers who have done specific things should be held accountable. Painting all police with the same brush is no different than painting all blacks with the same brush.

But they aren't. That's the whole point.

[RandBlade]

"naive"

naive
nʌɪˈiːv,nɑːˈiːv/

adjective

(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.

To dismiss alternative viewpoints on the subject matter shows a lack of wisdom and judgement. To pretend or believe that a thread shall only involve the exact narrow subject covered by the title only and not related viewpoints and drift would show a lack of experience.

[RandBlade]

Yeah and we've already agreed to save that kind of treatment for Muslims only

Muslims are pandered to by the west, they're not treated badly.

[Aimless]

Muslims are pandered to by the west, they're not treated badly.

Even if this were true rather than being laughably false, it has little to do with Lewk's comment or my response to it. Since you seem to be having some difficulties reading today, allow me to remind you of what Lewk said:

Painting all police with the same brush is no different than painting all blacks with the same brush.

[Khendraja'aro]

naive
nʌɪˈiːv,nɑːˈiːv/

adjective

(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement.

To dismiss alternative viewpoints on the subject matter shows a lack of wisdom and judgement. To pretend or believe that a thread shall only involve the exact narrow subject covered by the title only and not related viewpoints and drift would show a lack of experience.

So, a Quantum Physicist who dismisses a quack's opinion that quantum mechanics are a valid explanation for how homeopathy is healing people ... that's showing "a lack of wisdom and judgment". According to your "logic", at least.

Your position on this is highly ironic, considering your use of the word "naive".

Naivety: Making broad and sweeping statements. Also: Thinking that thread drift and overly broad "contributions" to topics are a-okay and every special snowflake's opinion has to be considered.