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Thread: World power swings back to America

  1. #1
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Default World power swings back to America

    World power swings back to America

    The American phoenix is slowly rising again. Within five years or so, the US will be well on its way to self-sufficiency in fuel and energy. Manufacturing will have closed the labour gap with China in a clutch of key industries. The current account might even be in surplus.


    The making of computers, electrical equipment, machinery, autos and other goods may shift back to the US from China.

    Assumptions that the Great Republic must inevitably spiral into economic and strategic decline - so like the chatter of the late 1980s, when Japan was in vogue - will seem wildly off the mark by then.

    Telegraph readers already know about the "shale gas revolution" that has turned America into the world’s number one producer of natural gas, ahead of Russia.

    Less known is that the technology of hydraulic fracturing - breaking rocks with jets of water - will also bring a quantum leap in shale oil supply, mostly from the Bakken fields in North Dakota, Eagle Ford in Texas, and other reserves across the Mid-West.

    "The US was the single largest contributor to global oil supply growth last year, with a net 395,000 barrels per day (b/d)," said Francisco Blanch from Bank of America, comparing the Dakota fields to a new North Sea.

    Total US shale output is "set to expand dramatically" as fresh sources come on stream, possibly reaching 5.5m b/d by mid-decade. This is a tenfold rise since 2009.

    The US already meets 72pc of its own oil needs, up from around 50pc a decade ago.

    "The implications of this shift are very large for geopolitics, energy security, historical military alliances and economic activity. As US reliance on the Middle East continues to drop, Europe is turning more dependent and will likely become more exposed to rent-seeking behaviour from oligopolistic players," said Mr Blanch.

    Meanwhile, the China-US seesaw is about to swing the other way. Offshoring is out, 're-inshoring' is the new fashion.

    "Made in America, Again" - a report this month by Boston Consulting Group - said Chinese wage inflation running at 16pc a year for a decade has closed much of the cost gap. China is no longer the "default location" for cheap plants supplying the US.

    A "tipping point" is near in computers, electrical equipment, machinery, autos and motor parts, plastics and rubber, fabricated metals, and even furniture.

    "A surprising amount of work that rushed to China over the past decade could soon start to come back," said BCG's Harold Sirkin.
    The gap in "productivity-adjusted wages" will narrow from 22pc of US levels in 2005 to 43pc (61pc for the US South) by 2015. Add in shipping costs, reliability woes, technology piracy, and the advantage shifts back to the US.

    The list of "repatriates" is growing. Farouk Systems is bringing back assembly of hair dryers to Texas after counterfeiting problems; ET Water Systems has switched its irrigation products to California; Master Lock is returning to Milwaukee, and NCR is bringing back its ATM output to Georgia. NatLabs is coming home to Florida.

    Boston Consulting expects up to 800,000 manufacturing jobs to return to the US by mid-decade, with a multiplier effect creating 3.2m in total. This would take some sting out of the Long Slump.

    As Philadelphia Fed chief Sandra Pianalto said last week, US manufacturing is "very competitive" at the current dollar exchange rate. Whether intended or not, the Fed's zero rates and $2.3 trillion printing blitz have brought matters to an abrupt head for China.

    Fed actions confronted Beijing with a Morton's Fork of ugly choices: revalue the yuan, or hang onto the mercantilist dollar peg and import a US monetary policy that is far too loose for a red-hot economy at the top of the cycle. Either choice erodes China's wage advantage. The Communist Party chose inflation.

    Foreign exchange effects are subtle. They take a long to time play out as old plant slowly runs down, and fresh investment goes elsewhere. Yet you can see the damage to Europe from an over-strong euro in foreign direct investment (FDI) data.

    Flows into the EU collapsed by 63p from 2007 to 2010 (UNCTAD data), and fell by 77pc in Italy. Flows into the US rose by 5pc.
    Volkswagen is investing $4bn in America, led by its Chattanooga Passat plant. Korea's Samsung has begun a $20bn US investment blitz. Meanwhile, Intel, GM, and Caterpillar and other US firms are opting to stay at home rather than invest abroad.

    Europe has only itself to blame for the current “hollowing out” of its industrial base. It craved its own reserve currency, without understanding how costly this “exorbitant burden” might prove to be.

    China and the rising reserve powers have rotated a large chunk of their $10 trillion stash into EMU bonds to reduce their dollar weighting. The result is a euro too strong for half of EMU.

    The European Central Bank has since made matters worse (for Italy, Spain, Portugal, and France) by keeping rates above those of the US, UK, and Japan. That has been a deliberate policy choice. It let real M1 deposits in Italy contract at a 7pc annual rate over the summer. May it live with the consequences.

    The trade-weighted dollar has been sliding for a decade, falling 37pc since 2001. This roughly replicates the post-Plaza slide in the late 1980s, which was followed - with a lag - by 3pc of GDP shrinkage in the current account deficit. The US had a surplus by 1991.

    Charles Dumas and Diana Choyleva from Lombard Street Research argue that this may happen again in their new book "The American Phoenix".
    The switch in advantage to the US is relative. It does not imply a healthy US recovery. The global depression will grind on as much of the Western world tightens fiscal policy and slowly purges debt, and as China deflates its credit bubble.

    Yet America retains a pack of trump cards, and not just in sixteen of the world’s top twenty universities.

    It is almost the only economic power with a fertility rate above 2.0 - and therefore the ability to outgrow debt - in sharp contrast to the demographic decay awaiting Japan, China, Korea, Germany, Italy, and Russia.

    Europe's EMU soap opera has shown why it matters that America is a genuine nation, forged by shared language and the ancestral chords of memory over two centuries, with institutions that ultimately work and a real central bank able to back-stop the system.

    The 21st Century may be American after all, just like the last.
    Source (with over a thousand comments)

    What does everyone make of this article? I'm not familiar with a lot of things that were said (although I have heard that the US is becoming more self-reliant on energy sources), but how realistic is all of this? 800 000 manufacturing jobs back in the US, with a further 3.2 million on the way? That's quite a claim, then again some consulting company came to the conclusion so I don't know how reliable it is.

    In any case, the fact that America has become the "number one produce of natural gas, ahead of Russia" and it being the "single largest contributor to global oil supply growth last year" is still great news Things are looking up (if Obama and co doesn't decide to screw it up).

    Oh and I like how it finished "The 21st Century may be American after all, just like the last. " pray it so! (I couldn't imagine it being anything else anyway, not like there's anything better)

  2. #2
    I have often argued - quite vociferously - that people who argue that the US is experiencing an inevitable decline are wrong. I still think so. That being said, the article is a bit too optimistic.

    For one, it's true that China is experiencing issues, particularly including the famous middle income gap. This increases the unit cost of labor and makes working there less attractive. But that presupposes that jobs will then flow back to the US. That's demonstrably untrue; we've already seen jobs flowing to other low-income countries in Asia (and maybe someday Africa?), where the process is being repeated with various levels of success. I have no doubt that the US will continue to produce a remarkable amount of stuff - far more than anyone else in the world, and far more efficiently as well. But it's never going to become an economy driven by manufacturing any more; precisely because we've managed to make manufacturing so efficient, services are always going to take up a big portion of our economy.

    Second, even if China does experience the expected issues, their raw size means their economy will surpass the US economy in total output within 10-20 years with little difficulty. India will take longer, but probably isn't that far behind. That means that even if the US economy continues to be strong and the forefront of technological progress, we will no longer enjoy the remarkably dominant position we previously held.

    Thirdly, the only reason why new oil/gas supplies in the US have become available is due to the high cost of energy right now. Unsurprisingly, US firms have been among the first to exploit technological means to improve output at higher market prices, but I doubt that this will continue indefinitely - countries all over the world are looking into previously unusable oil/gas reserves and trying to exploit them. Overinvestment in this area might drive down prices and result in oversupply, driving down prices and shifting US energy supply back towards cheaper imports. It's not a sure thing, of course, but the better way to drive down energy imports is to drive up the local cost of fuel/energy in order to encourage efficiency and lower usage.

    In general, this article seems to point out why the US is better positioned compared to specific other boogeymen - China, EU, OPEC nations, etc. And to some extent, they're right - we're still a very competitive, dynamic economy. But the broader story of the US ceding some of its unprecedented power in the next century is probably to some extent true. We will still be an incredibly important player in the world for the next century: we will continue to drive the 'technological edge' forward, we will continue to be a source for significant innovation, we will still have the most powerful and far-flung military, etc. But we won't be able to act with the same level of freedom, as other players will start to become more and more important.

  3. #3
    Good post, except maybe for labelling the EU a boogeyman. We're good guys, honest.

    A little feistier competition will spark that entrepreneurial US spirit. It'll be good.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  4. #4
    America's future rely's upon it's freedom of expression, it's liberites, resources, potential for individual prosperity, and because of these it attracts the brightest minds of the world and these minds help perpetuate our social, and economic dominance. We're no longer primarily a manufacturer products but more a manufacturer of ideas. Part of this is because we're filling a global demand, part of it is that our cost of production are too high compared to alternatives such as 3rd world country labor.

  5. #5
    You don't have an exclusive position there. Of course it is an advantage over China. But I don't believe "the freest country of the world" thing.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  6. #6
    I dislike the propaganda but can't argue the opinions.

    Ziggy, the EU might not be the good guys economically at the moment, what with whole countries going bankrupt.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Good post, except maybe for labelling the EU a boogeyman. We're good guys, honest.
    That's just what I would have expected a boogeyman to say
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  8. #8
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco View Post
    Things are looking up (if Obama and co doesn't decide to screw it up).
    I'd be less worried about one token [half] nigger and more worried about the voting public's tendancy to vote for the socialist shithead who promises them the most free stuff.

    It always amazes me how Americans can have the benefit of watching how badly high levels of socialism work out for the rest of the developed world... and then vote for more socialist policies and politicians anyway, and end up befuddled by things like this Great Recession. Fucking morons.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    You don't have an exclusive position there. Of course it is an advantage over China. But I don't believe "the freest country of the world" thing.
    If not America, then where?

    It's not like I have a whole lot of love for America's mob-rule, police-state bureaucracy, but I can't see anywhere that's free-er either. A rather scathing indictment of humanity, that the USA is the best we can do after 6,000 years of "civilization," but that's a little bit of a tangent to the question of "if not America, where?"
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    If not America, then where?
    It's not "if not, then where?" but "where too". I said, the US is not in any way exceptional in this concern. On the other hand, I see also no other country that is.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  10. #10
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Kind of a weird definition or criteria, though. If you're tied for first place, you're still in first place, aren't ya? If it's a race, you're "fastest," even if someone else is "fastest" too, so I'm not sure why you're getting hung up when we change "fast" to "free."
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  11. #11
    I take it you dismiss various indexes about freedom in countries which don't place America as freest country? What do you use instead to determine it is? Isn't it just a snappy slogan type of deal no one should take really serious?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  12. #12
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    I take it you dismiss various indexes about freedom in countries which don't place America as freest country? What do you use instead to determine it is?
    Economic freedom and the right of self-defense.

    You can gather all the demographic data you want and rate this and that, but when it comes down to it, "freedom" doesn't exist in a place where you'll be incarcerated for defending yourself and/or your property, which the government takes up to two thirds of (on average!). So, good for yous lot and those guys who make the indexes that confirm they're "more free" in whatever Western tyranny that's even more socialist than the USA, but I can't consider any place that would incarcerate me for defending the third of my stuff the government doesn't take as even remotely "free." Like gold-plated jewelery, it looks like gold, but isn't gold in any important way.

    (And not to fret, America's catching up to the rest of the unfree world at break-neck speed, so it's not gonna be too long until we're all in a tie for last place.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Isn't it just a snappy slogan type of deal no one should take really serious?
    No, I was quite serious when I said it's a scathing indictment of humanity that [whatever country] is the best we've been able to do in 6,000 years of civilization. Hundreds of generations of "progress" proving that humans are collectively as intelligent as bacterial cultures, yippie.
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  13. #13
    Which Western places incarcerate you for defending your property?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Kind of a weird definition or criteria, though. If you're tied for first place, you're still in first place, aren't ya? If it's a race, you're "fastest," even if someone else is "fastest" too, so I'm not sure why you're getting hung up when we change "fast" to "free."
    No it's not an weird definition. It is the simple definition that you are among the freest countries. And as I said you don't have that position exclusively.

    If you compare the countries on top you see that some countries are freer in some fields and some in others. And you can't really compare freedom to a horse race, because you being the fastest is well defined.

    In your measurement of using taxation averages is very narrow, and the US doesn't even win closely on it. (You know that some OPEC countries have almost no taxes?)
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Economic freedom and the right of self-defense.

    You can gather all the demographic data you want and rate this and that, but when it comes down to it, "freedom" doesn't exist in a place where you'll be incarcerated for defending yourself and/or your property, which the government takes up to two thirds of (on average!). So, good for yous lot and those guys who make the indexes that confirm they're "more free" in whatever Western tyranny that's even more socialist than the USA, but I can't consider any place that would incarcerate me for defending the third of my stuff the government doesn't take as even remotely "free." Like gold-plated jewelery, it looks like gold, but isn't gold in any important way.
    So you make it up as you go along, make sure to set the emphasis where it's beneficial, with the conclusion already set beforehand. Well, whatever works for you, and if it matters that much, good luck with it.

    I guess the best response would be: Sure you are the freest, bestest democracy in the World. Go you
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
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  16. #16
    De Oppresso Liber CitizenCain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Which Western places incarcerate you for defending your property?
    Most of Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    In your measurement of using taxation averages is very narrow, and the US doesn't even win closely on it. (You know that some OPEC countries have almost no taxes?)
    Yeah, and they also lock you up and whip you for disagreeing with the king/grand cleric/whatever, which would be why they're not anywhere on the list of "free" countries.

    Self defense and [real] taxation rates would be the things a lot of those lists Ziggy mentioned don't adequately account for in their definitions of freedom, at least as far as my tastes go. They have other flaws too, but most of the other flaws seem to be equally applicable across all modern countries, and therefore, aren't relevant to the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    So you make it up as you go along, make sure to set the emphasis where it's beneficial, with the conclusion already set beforehand.


    So, if you're gonna be like that (and pretend you don't do the same thing to at least the same degree), what was the point of asking the question in the first place?
    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    -- Thomas Jefferson: American Founding Father, clairvoyant and seditious traitor.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post


    So, if you're gonna be like that (and pretend you don't do the same thing to at least the same degree), what was the point of asking the question in the first place?
    2 things and an answer to your question.

    1. You were already like that. So sorry if I returned the favour and you weren't planning to take what you dish out so easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    So, good for yous lot and those guys who make the indexes that confirm they're "more free" in whatever Western tyranny that's even more socialist than the USA
    edit: By the way, I think Hong Kong, Singapore and Aussie came out on top of those lists, and the US ranked quite near the top, and higher than many Western Tyrannies last time I looked. So not only are the Western Socialist Tyrannies unfree in every book, they're also crap at making "the indexes that confirm they're "more free" in whatever Western tyranny that's even more socialist than the USA".

    2. Being or not being the freest nation of the world doesn't mean anything to me. There's stuff I'd like to be able to do here that I can't, and there's stuff in here that I can do and can't in other places (like the US). I'm not going to weigh, index and tally up the score to see which country is number one. I don't know, don't care and don't claim being the freest.

    Now the answer, the reason I asked the question is to figure if you were serious about it all, or just having a bit of a jolly rant. It seems it means quite a bit to you, so again sorry for downplaying the way you arrived at your subjective conclusion.
    Last edited by Ziggy Stardust; 10-28-2011 at 12:40 PM.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Which Western places incarcerate you for defending your property?
    I suppose all of them if you shoot at the tax-man when he comes to ask you about your extensive and long-running tax-fraud
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  19. #19
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    For one, it's true that China is experiencing issues, particularly including the famous middle income gap.

    Second, even if China does experience the expected issues, their raw size means their economy will surpass the US economy in total output within 10-20 years with little difficulty. India will take longer, but probably isn't that far behind. That means that even if the US economy continues to be strong and the forefront of technological progress, we will no longer enjoy the remarkably dominant position we previously held.
    10-20 years? That's quite an 'optimistic' figure. I would have given them a 30-50 years? Then again I'm not as well-versed on these matters as many of you are. As for China experiencing issues, keep in mind that a massive chunk of their population is impoverished (or lives below the poverty line, whatever), and I wouldn't be surprised if these people staged some sort of uprising/revolt when they realise that they're not getting their share of the wealth that the country would be generating, that the system they live in, the one that advocates for distribution of wealth and such, isn't helping them.

    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    I'd be less worried about one token [half] nigger and more worried about the voting public's tendancy to vote for the socialist shithead who promises them the most free stuff.
    That's the most tragic thing out of all this. How the mind set of a people can change, how a country can go from a strong industrious nation, to something inbetween and far off the scale.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Which Western places incarcerate you for defending your property?
    Quote Originally Posted by CitizenCain View Post
    Most of Europe.
    Citations?

    I know in the UK there have been several cases recently where burglars were attacked and killed by the homeowner, and in none of these cases did the homeowner face any judicial consequences whatsoever.

    One case. Another case. Another one.

    Not sure if the law differs much in places like France or Germany, but I suspect not. Sounds to me like another misconception Murikans have about a 'lack of freedom' them poor Yurpeans have.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    We lack freedom because we're not allowed to shoot unarmed burglars running away in their back.

  22. #22
    After stealing toothpaste?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Citations?

    I know in the UK there have been several cases recently where burglars were attacked and killed by the homeowner, and in none of these cases did the homeowner face any judicial consequences whatsoever.

    One case. Another case. Another one.

    Not sure if the law differs much in places like France or Germany, but I suspect not. Sounds to me like another misconception Murikans have about a 'lack of freedom' them poor Yurpeans have.
    Actually, Cameron only changed the law to allow that in the last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    We lack freedom because we're not allowed to shoot unarmed burglars running away in their back.
    More like because you can't shoot people who are holding knives to the throats of your family and threatening to rape and murder your family members (real case in Britain from a year or two ago).
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    Flixy isn't British.

  25. #25
    That you for that useful information. My memory is clearly so bad that despite interacting with Flixy and others here for years, I have yet to realize that not all members here are from Britain and the US.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #26
    Europe isn't Britain (well it's complicated I know)

    28th October 2011, Neue Zurcher Zeitung
    Acquittal, despite the fatal shooting of father
    Excusable self-defense excess recognized - Compensation for seven and a half months detention
    The young woman who shot her father in October 2009 in Oberrieden, was acquitted due to a self-defense situation. She receives 7585 francs for damages and 23 000 francs satisfaction.
    http://translate.google.com/translat....13141462.html
    Very bad google translation from a trusted source (NZZ)

    Unknown Enlish source:
    http://www.thelocal.ch/1593/20111027/#
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    More like because you can't shoot people who are holding knives to the throats of your family and threatening to rape and murder your family members (real case in Britain from a year or two ago).
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    That you for that useful information. My memory is clearly so bad that despite interacting with Flixy and others here for years, I have yet to realize that not all members here are from Britain and the US.
    You're welcome.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    Europe isn't Britain (well it's complicated I know)


    http://translate.google.com/translat....13141462.html
    Very bad google translation from a trusted source (NZZ)

    Unknown Enlish source:
    http://www.thelocal.ch/1593/20111027/#
    That's what happened after she spent 7.5 months in prison...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #29
    and compenstated for, marking the ruling as an injustice, and not something you're going to see as the interpretation of the law you trying to slam.

    You need a better example if all you're going to do is point at missteps and scream "told you so." Cause America has plenty of those as well, especially in this area of law.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  30. #30
    Senior Member Draco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Citations?

    I know in the UK there have been several cases recently where burglars were attacked and killed by the homeowner, and in none of these cases did the homeowner face any judicial consequences whatsoever.
    There's this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29
    Only one that came to mind but I remember reading similar stories of burglars breaking into someones property (in the UK), and being injured by the owners then the owners have to pay up.

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