My Stupid Website...

[Bitter Jeweler]

I am bringing this out of the groove thread, if that's alright.

Original post about my pro website: http://www.theworldforgotten.com/sho...ll=1#post91567

Anywho...After sending an email a week after the first, telling the webguys that we are done here (in a nutshell) I got a quick response.
I was told that even though I was told my site was almost done, the site they put up was temporary, to have something up when I was at the Gem and Jewelry show. The suposedly finished site is now up...again... wilkinson jewelry dot com.

They changed how the gallery thumbs work from the proposed drop down, scrollable bar, to a page of thumbs. I don't care for it. There is now the overlay that switches between the image and the desciption. I find it kinda clunky, poorly laid out, and often covering the image. This is particularly horrid in the "Process" section. I also don't like how you have to exit the text to get to the arrows to advance to the next image. I think it would make more sense to advance from the text, to the next image. The "full story" button was suposed to fade in and out, or pulse, instead it goes from pastel to bright hot pink. I don't like pink. There is too much pink.

They have this set up so iPhones and iPads are delivered a different version than the computer. But I still find that the PC version still has to scroll. It's still just kinda awkward.

Steely Glint, i have to agree with you as well. It is odd to land on the site, in the gallery.

I dunno, I feel I am looking at this through angry eyes, but it just doesn't feel right. Or maybe it is too far out there, or too different, too stylised for me. Like it's trying to be slick, but it is still clumsy?

I also question the about me page. Do you find it odd that I am talked about in third person? Is it better or worse to say "I do this, and I do that" rather than "David does this, and David does that"?


I want to apologize to you all that I don't participate as much as I used to. I've always enjoyed this community. My world just seems to have gotten rather small. So, I appreciate your input. this is a big deal to me. This is my public internet face! Thanks for your time.

[littlelolligagged]

I do not like it. I like it less now than I did before.

While your work is stunning and speaks for itself, I do not want to land on a web page and have it be essentially an oversized photo. I find the "full story" buttons irritating. It just doesn't feel very professional to me at all.

However, that picture of you is sexxxxy as hell, sunshine.

[Dreadnaught]

I demand four more posts here before I give any feedback.

I think the biggest thing for me is the text isn't very visible with black or grey backgrounds. Over half of the photos have black or grey backgrounds, so it's a bit of an issue. If there was a way to address that (which could be hard, it looks like they baked that style scheme into the whole site) I think it would be a pretty good site.

I agree, the third person thing is a bit awkward. It sounds like it makes sense to keep things third-person and professional until you actually read it. A first-person would work well here.

[Wraith]

I also question the about me page. Do you find it odd that I am talked about in third person? Is it better or worse to say "I do this, and I do that" rather than "David does this, and David does that"?

I don't think this is odd. It sounds more professional to me than doing it in first person. (edit: Actually, under the "craftsman" tab, what's being said there sounds way too personal to be written about in the third person. So I agree with you and Dread then, I guess.)

On the website itself, I think I kinda agree with you. It's odd to land right on the gallery, and the whole site's design is weird and not very intuitive. The front page should probably be something that says who you are and what you do. They also still have the somewhat botched scrolling, where the images only resize horizontally and ignore the vertical. The navigation buttons become very hard to see on certain pictures. Sorry man, but the work these people did for you just isn't very good.

The logo's pretty nice, though.

[agamemnus]

I'm viewing on 1280x1024, and with the exception of:

1) The colors need to vary on light backgrounds... (white instead of faded pink for the title, and pink instead of white for the navigation dots)

2) The page *should* start on the entire gallery, not just on one piece...

3) The copyright notice should be centered and on a separate line, not take up half the bottom-left text. (and un-centered too)

4) What is a "gents band"?

5) Switching jewelry pieces with the dot navigation shouldn't jump to the top of the page each time, but keep the user where he was. For me, I just have to scroll down every time I want to look at a different piece of jewelry, which is a bit of a hassle.

6) As you said: "I also don't like how you have to exit the text to get to the arrows to advance to the next image."

7) The "process" part of it should by default already have text visible instead of the image.. or maybe it should be redesigned already.

8) S H A V E ! Alternatively, you may consider investing in a red bowl-type hat with a white puff on it, some reindeer, and a sleigh...

...I think it's excellent.

It just doesn't seem polished... seems a bit lazily done.

The "full story" button was suposed to fade in and out, or pulse, instead it goes from pastel to bright hot pink.

I don't understand this. It does fade in and out...?

----

Do you at least have a database/listing with the jewelry images and description listed (and possibly a way to add another one), or is it all hand-coded?

[CitizenCain]

I think I'm in agreement with Wraith.

It's not that the site is "bad," (IMO) or anything like that, but as an IT professional, if I did work like that, I sure as hell wouldn't charge for it, nor would I want my name associated with that as my work product. I'd do something like the site they set up as a quick demo, as in: "This took me an hour, you want something that'll really knock your socks off, it'll cost you a bunch." (Oh, well, as it originally stood, anyway - the slickish "controls" they put up since you first post would take a bit of time.) Or if a friend/colleague was bugging me to do a website for them for free or almost, free, I'd pull something like that out of template and tell them to get a pro to polish and/or tweak it as they saw fit.

I actually like the general layout and design of the site, pac-man navigation, text overlaying the images and lack of a proper landing site aside, and think the brighter pink is a nice contrast to the grey backgrounds and generally silver color of the rings themselves, but... ultimately, while I'm not in complete agreement with your aesthetic views and design goals, you're the customer, and you're paying for a service, which is in, effect realizing your aesthetic tastes in web form. If you were promised drop-down thumbnails (which doesn't sound like a good idea to me, FWIW) and have something else, they dropped the ball, bottom line - they're not giving you what you said you'd pay for. (And have already paid for, if I understand things correctly.)

So, I think you are looking at the site through angry eyes, and being a little more critical of it than anyone else would be, that's a completely justified reaction to not getting what you paid for, in addition to the more objective... flaws... of the website. But I am in complete agreement with your assessment that it's "Like it's trying to be slick, but it is still clumsy", regarding the layout and navigation of the site.

And, honestly, it looks to me like the site is very close to being quite nice and what you want, so you can take solace in the fact that it shouldn't be too hard, or take too long for someone better to take what you have now, and turn it into what you want it to be.

If it makes you feel any better at all, though, you're hardly alone - the company I'm currently working at is having similar, but far worse problems with their website, and the big firm they pay to do it for them. In the past fiscal quarter, the web guys have managed to take the whole site offline completely, twice, for no good reason other than they panicked, and fucked up the DNS entries half a dozen times, so the site is unreachable to most of the internet for days at a time. (And what a website designer is doing fucking around with DNS in the first place is beyond me.) So, in that misery loves company, I thought I'd share that with you. You're not alone!

[Illusions]

If this service ever goes down: http://www.sencha.com/learn/how-to-use-src-sencha-io/ , your gallery images aren't going to display. Look at the source code for your site. The images are prefixed with http://src.sencha.io ...

Also, you don't want pulsing stuff on your site. You may think you do, but you really don't.

[Enoch the Red]

That it's not accounting for vertical scaling is a huge part of the usability problem.

Instead of using the dot navigation at the bottom, I'd encourage a scrolling thumbnail showcase at the top of the screen beneath your primary navigation bar, or one that is always at the bottom of your screen. Not only would it showcase your work immediately, (being one of the first things seen) it would greatly simplify the navigation of the site.

The full story button could be simplified and relocated, and the text would better placed as a sidebar that didn't obscure the image entirely.

[Khendraja'aro]

The landing page is actually pretty easy to fix:

The just have to change the following line in /config/routes.rb:

:root => "work#index"

Then you'd arrive at the work overview page instead of directly at the first work. And why they're hosting your images on a 3rd party's host is anyone's guess. I certainly don't see the need for it.

[Enoch the Red]

And why they're hosting your images on a 3rd party's host is anyone's guess. I certainly don't see the need for it.

It looks like it's a service that automatically resizes the images, (I'm guessing through JavaScript) to fit the screen of the device being used.

[Khendraja'aro]

No, for Javascript you don't need a 3rd party host - I now see why they did that, it actually shrinks the image on the fly, thus reducing bandwidth costs.

However, since they're using Ruby on Rails anyway, they could've also done that with the RMagick-Gem - thus not having to rely on 2 services to be available: Sencha and Amazon S3. I mean, they're getting the big image just once anyway and then resize it through Javascript when you change the browser window size...

... it's not like this will be a high-traffic website the likes of Amazon or Google.

[Steely Glint]

The suposedly finished site is now up...again... wilkinson jewelry dot com.

Interesting definition of finished they have, then, because there are pages in the site that still have lorem ipsum text on them.

Later, you say isn't it a bit odd to refer to yourself in the third person (yes, it is)... who actually has responsibility for the content, here? Normally, it would be the client since they actually know about the stuff they do, rather than the developers. But from what you say, it seems as if they were also providing content? If so, you need to punch them in the face for telling you the site is finished when it still has placeholder text on it. If not, you really need to write some content for it. Leaving aside the failings of the actual site, which are manifold, it will never actually make money for you without a lot more content - content gets you a decent position on google, and it's going to get people to stay on the site and eventually do what you want them to do which is to contact you expressing an interest.

Do you have access to the CMS?

I honestly don't know what they are thinking about the way they've done content pages. I just... I mean, why? I suppose something like that would make sense if it was a gallery, as in a section of the site where you go to look at pictures, so in terms of the work section that sort of makes sense but doing that for the 'process' and 'craftsman' section which is by any standards a content section is just mind bogglingly lazy. There's no real reason for the 'process' section to be more than one page at all, as far as I can see.

What I would do were I you:

* get access to CMS, if you don't already have it. Make them send you a user name and password.
* Make a page called "Home"
* Write some words on it.
* Put some pictures on it. Small ones.
* Put a link to the contact form page on there, suggesting that people reading should get in touch with you if you're interested and ask you about placing an order, or request a quote or however you interact with your customers.
* Make this page the home page.

No idea how easy or harder that will be to accomplish in the backend, but those to me seem to be the first steps I'd take towards making the site actually functional.

nor would I want my name associated with that as my work product.

Apparently, they feel the same way. Notice the lack of "web design by [x]" in the footer.

[Lebanese Dragon]

You can't order directly off the site? I didn't like the fading pink text either... it just needs to be more prominent just sitting there.

My advice is go to many other jewlery websites, and just copy them... copy their format. Take what you like from them and put them in your place. Maybe even ask if they'll host your products in exchange for a cut. Just to get a name out for yourself faster. Grow you online business much quicker than just doing it all on your own. Perhaps hit up the E-bay, and Craigslist or whatever avenues you wish to implore.

[littlelolligagged]

So you think he should steal web design from others, and then put himself out of business?

[Bitter Jeweler]

So you think he should steal web design from others, and then put himself out of business?

LOL, give me a minute, Ima gonna show you something interesting.

[Bitter Jeweler]

Looks familiar, donnit?





This makes much more sense for my work, and descriptions.




Hmmm....even David Yurman....

[littlelolligagged]

Oooh.

You should demand a refund. You're no good at being an angry Bit-bit, though.

I like their website. I could spend quite awhile browsing it. Your imitation didn't have that effect on me, because it was awkward.

Your photography is way better, though.

[Lebanese Dragon]

So you think he should steal web design from others, and then put himself out of business?

I'm not here to defend my ideas from random attacks. I was just offering thoughts take them or leave them.

Good luck with it all, the rings looked amazing.

[Catgrrl]

My biggest complaint is the full story buttons; being in the center they sort of blend into the photos, making them less appealing to me. If it was more to the left or right of the screen it wouldn't be such a bother to me.

The third person description wouldn't bother me if it was worded a bit better. Something about it looks like a high-school biography paper. It may be the way the paragraphs, or lack thereof, are formed. I dunno.

I agree with lolli that it is a very nice photo of you

[Bitter Jeweler]

I think the biggest thing for me is the text isn't very visible with black or grey backgrounds. Over half of the photos have black or grey backgrounds, so it's a bit of an issue. If there was a way to address that (which could be hard, it looks like they baked that style scheme into the whole site) I think it would be a pretty good site.

I agree, the third person thing is a bit awkward. It sounds like it makes sense to keep things third-person and professional until you actually read it. A first-person would work well here.

As far as the backgrounds of the photos, not much can be done about that now. I could try changing the white ones, but I am sure it will be noticable Shopping. That's my fault. I was still learning, and trying different things with product photography, before I decided I like the black better, and continued improving shooting that way. Unfortunately a couple of my favorites are done on white, so i have to deal with it.

I definitely will be changing the "about me" copy to first person. As Wraith says, it's too personal. There's a couple things that are worded awkwardly as well.

Wraith, I do love my logo. And I love the font for my name.
As far as the "branding" they attempted, I think it falls apart with the URL not being the same as the header of the page. I am seriously thinking of going back to David Wilkinson Design, rather than just David Wilkinson mostly because I own www.davidwilkinsondesign.com I do think it's a little wordy, but hey, I'd rather have the continuity.

I
I don't understand this. It does fade in and out...?

----

Do you at least have a database/listing with the jewelry images and description listed (and possibly a way to add another one), or is it all hand-coded?

The Full Story button was supose to "glow", going from nonexistant to full bold color and back, as to not intrude on the image. Now it just flips abruptly from light pink to hot pink. Blech!

Yes, they built a backend thing that I can log into and upload new images and descriptions, and it auto populates the gallery, or so I am told. And I can edit all the descriptions that are existing.

If this service ever goes down: http://www.sencha.com/learn/how-to-use-src-sencha-io/ , your gallery images aren't going to display. Look at the source code for your site. The images are prefixed with http://src.sencha.io ...

Also, you don't want pulsing stuff on your site. You may think you do, but you really don't.

I know nothing about sencha, but that is interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.

I don't want pulsing stuff? But I thought I really did. Why don't I?

That it's not accounting for vertical scaling is a huge part of the usability problem.

Instead of using the dot navigation at the bottom, I'd encourage a scrolling thumbnail showcase at the top of the screen beneath your primary navigation bar, or one that is always at the bottom of your screen. Not only would it showcase your work immediately, (being one of the first things seen) it would greatly simplify the navigation of the site.

The full story button could be simplified and relocated, and the text would better placed as a sidebar that didn't obscure the image entirely.

That is exactly what it was supposed to be!!!

I agree with the description on the side. All my images are cropped square. They actually extended them to make this site. I want smaller images than what they have going on, and I think I want to skip the "clever" screen description overlay thing. Particulary since Illusions says i really don't want the button to pulse.

The landing page is actually pretty easy to fix:

The just have to change the following line in /config/routes.rb:.

It needs a better landing page anyhow. I mean, I think I get what they were going for, going right to the work, but as has been said, it just needs to say more. I have an idea for that.

You can't order directly off the site? I didn't like the fading pink text either... it just needs to be more prominent just sitting there.

My advice is go to many other jewlery websites, and just copy them... copy their format. Take what you like from them and put them in your place. Maybe even ask if they'll host your products in exchange for a cut. Just to get a name out for yourself faster. Grow you online business much quicker than just doing it all on your own. Perhaps hit up the E-bay, and Craigslist or whatever avenues you wish to implore.

I do custom design work. I don't have time to also make my own designs for stock (selling), but I am working in that direction. My site isn't for online selling. It is promotional and informational. It shows what I do, so if so and so had me design a ring for them, they could send their friends to my site to see more of what I do, and maybe spark ideas for them. That's why i try to stress in the description when an item was made from stones and gold the customer already has.

You aren't to far off base there, with your suggestion. I have browsed a few other sites to see what they are doing. i posted two that are similar, but better than mine. Cartier has a fantastic site, and there is an element that I want to borrow, indirectly. Yes, looking at other stuff can trigger ideas. Even my design work is based off all the jewelery I have seen in my lifetime. Sure there are little and big things that come strictly from my sensibility, but there are only so many ways to set stomes.

Ebay and craigslist is not my market.

Oooh.

You should demand a refund. You're no good at being an angry Bit-bit, though.

I like their website. I could spend quite awhile browsing it.

Your right, I am not good at being angry. As mad as I am about this, i will have a hard time telling them they need to basically start over.

I agree with lolli that it is a very nice photo of you

ugh. I didn't like that picture. They used it away. I couldn't find a better one so, what's a guy to do.

Interesting definition of finished they have, then, because there are pages in the site that still have lorem ipsum text on them.

Yes, all the descriptions were pulled from my facebook business page, some of the rings didn't have a description, so I need to flesh out the Lorem Ipsum. That's something they can't do without my input. Notice how using the arrows for advancing the images works for, like the first four, then it goes all "choose your own adventure" on you. Even the back arrow doesn't take you back to the previous image on some of them. LOL

You really need to write some content for it. Leaving aside the failings of the actual site, which are manifold, it will never actually make money for you without a lot more content - content gets you a decent position on google, and it's going to get people to stay on the site and eventually do what you want them to do which is to contact you expressing an interest.

I agree. I want to also have jewelery care tips, and stuff. Apparently, a gem dealer I met can tie his gem site into mine, so people like lolli could browse stones and it would even give the price including my markup, and leave off all references to the gem dealer. I think that is pretty cool.

Do you have access to the CMS?

Huh?

I honestly don't know what they are thinking about the way they've done content pages. I just... I mean, why? I suppose something like that would make sense if it was a gallery, as in a section of the site where you go to look at pictures, so in terms of the work section that sort of makes sense but doing that for the 'process' and 'craftsman' section which is by any standards a content section is just mind bogglingly lazy. There's no real reason for the 'process' section to be more than one page at all, as far as I can see.

Do you mean the process page should just be one long scrollable page? There are 32 images/steps there. What i don't like is the need to click the button to read about it.

What I would do were I you:

* get access to CMS, if you don't already have it. Make them send you a user name and password.
* Make a page called "Home"
* Write some words on it.
* Put some pictures on it. Small ones.
* Put a link to the contact form page on there, suggesting that people reading should get in touch with you if you're interested and ask you about placing an order, or request a quote or however you interact with your customers.
* Make this page the home page.

No idea how easy or harder that will be to accomplish in the backend, but those to me seem to be the first steps I'd take towards making the site actually functional.

I feel we are at the point of "back to the drawing board" on this site.

Apparently, they feel the same way. Notice the lack of "web design by [x]" in the footer.

Ha! i didn't notice that. LOL

[Wraith]

I don't want pulsing stuff? But I thought I really did. Why don't I?

It gets very obnoxious, very quickly. Avoid all repeated animations. Animations for transitions are okay.

[CitizenCain]

Huh?

CMS = Content Management System. The way you update and select content to be put into the website. (These guys may not use one, but most web designers do, given how much simpler and automated it makes much of the web site building and maintaining process.)

Joomla is the most popular one these days, I think.

[Catgrrl]

You could always use the photo you have on your avatar here....or really, some of the ones you've posted around here before, of you actually doing your work. I find it fascinating; maybe some of your clientele may also? Or is that something that would need to stay in your "process" section?

[GGT]

I've been up all night (and drinking wine, sshhh ) but I don't see your website link, Bitter. The last one you gave (www.davidwilkinsondesign.com) directed me to a crappy Go Daddy page with icky advertisements. I scrolled back through all the posts, but still don't see your official website link.

Am I supposed to hunt through the TWF link you gave, or what am I doing wrong?

[Bitter Jeweler]

Sorry, GGT, you have to type wilkinson jewelry dot com into a new browser window, removing the spaces, and providing the dot. This is so there are no track backs to this conversation in the site statistics.

The link that goes to godaddy, is because I bought that domain name but never did anything with it. I bought it a year after dwilkinsondesign.com, because it wasn't available at the time.

[Lebanese Dragon]

I thought I wrote this, but couldn't find it on my original reply. Do you have a "counter" or hidden counter so you can keep track of the unique IPs hitting your site, or a way to keep track of the turn over rate of new people you are acquiring through your site. Maybe have a temporary printable coupon put up to measure this, and encourage use/spreading of the site.

Also perhaps if you find other local jewelers with websites that have bigger names than you maybe you could link to their site and vice versa... may benefit both of you, especially if they specialize in a different area than you.

Edit: I'm not sure how you're business is doing, but you may consider doing some sort of fund raiser for a cause, and hope some newspaper or local radio picks up the story. May be nice publicity. Alright i'm done with ideas .

[Dreadnaught]

Google Analytics.

Also, the site appears to be down.

[Illusions]

Google Analytics.

The hosting service I use, Dreamhost, uses server side tracking, so no one has to deal with a javascript or Google tracker if they don't want to. Also keeps track of a bunch of other stuff that Google Analytics does (except things like time on page), for instance, most viewed files, file types, % of total bytes downloaded a specific file was, % of traffic a specific IP was, etc. but it doesn't seem as nicely organized as Google Analytics. It also displays which files failed, which, for me at least, gives me a good indicator that once a month a bot tries to gain access to my site controls by going down the list of default access pages for Joomla, Wordpress, phpMyAdmin, PostgreSQL, MySQL, etc.

Of course I don't use any of this, and CMS is handled ass backwardly by my own shitty system I implemented, so I laugh at it.

[Bitter Jeweler]

IEdit: I'm not sure how you're business is doing, but you may consider doing some sort of fund raiser for a cause, and hope some newspaper or local radio picks up the story. May be nice publicity. Alright i'm done with ideas .

My business is doing well. More work than I can handle. I even picked up a new customer. I think I am crazy. But they have an instore jeweler, so it is strickly custom work. I was referred by another jeweler, and I wowed them with their first job with me. So, no, I am not needing this site to drum up business in a hurry. But I do plan on testing the waters with small advertising in specific markets. If I am going to advertise, it's a must to have a website for more information, and to show the range of my work, and style. My plan for growth is primary word of mouth driven, which is slow. But that's good, because it will give me time to react and adjust. It's hard to explain to people that don't see this side of a business. I am a wholesale trade shop, doing work for area retail stores. I am trying to gain more retail sales to the public of my own. Because that's where the money is. What I charge for a job typically gets doubled or tripled to the customer of the retail store. So by getting the public in to me directly, I can charge double or triple my wholesale prices, and really score!

If I get business from people google searching for a jeweler, that's a bonus. Slow and steady wins the race.

My goal across the next five years is to be doing 50% wholesale trade work, and 50% retail work. If you do the math, that means I can work fewer hours to make the same amount of money. as it stands, right now I am doing 90% wholesale work. But with the few retail customers I have had, I already see word of mouth referals working, or repeat business. It's all good. It's a great situation to have your ass covered with rather guaranteed consistant wholesale work, while working on transitioning to the "easier" money.

Google Analytics.

Also, the site appears to be down.

It still appears to be up for me.

[Lebanese Dragon]

That's good, doesn't it make you wish you had this tenacity when you were younger to venture out and start your own ring shop? Sweet, that your shop is doing well. I hope you find ways to get more direct customers, so you can cut back your retail side sales. It'd be sweet if you could negotiate a way to make those retailers attribute you as the maker of the ring/give your website out. Even a nice little nameplate below where the ring is being displayed is nice, that has your website on it. Or if you can convince them to hand out a business card with every ring sale of your rings. Maybe you can provide "free ring boxes" for these businesses, and in it will be one of your business cards (or maybe your info will be inscribed on the inside of the box somewhere). Somewhere on the business card it says your website, and the fact that Wilkinson does custom rings. Or maybe you can engrave your website into the inside circle of the ring, I'm not sure how that would effect consumer valuing of the piece (even if lower in short-term, may pay off in long run, sell a few rings cheaper to the retailers that have that engraving, hope it helps draw people to you).

Maybe on youtube do a video on "How to make rings" Maybe hire someone to video tape it for you/do editing.. if you do a good job, it may become popular, and you can also have your website/where you craft the rings be advertised in it.

Now I am really done, I have other ideas buzzing around... but you seem to have your plan of action mapped out.