The Zionist entity

[Hazir]

Very tentative plans that may not materialize, but still tips are welcome. Is october / november a decent time to visit Israel? Yours truly thinks that TA is the obvious point of entry and base for exploration, but besides that I have no idea. There appearantly is this other city you shouldn't visit on saturdays and disputed occupied territories that are a bit too confusing for a dumb tourist like me. I don't eat pork, so no need for that special place where they sell real russian blood sausage.

[Loki]

Just plan for the real (though not overwhelming) possibility that there will be another uprising after Palestine declares independence in September.

[wiggin]

October/November is fine, though later November may get rainy/chilly by Israeli standards (i.e. no beaches). That nonsense about not visiting Jerusalem on Saturday is just that. Obviously you don't want to drive through a religious neighborhood (esp. the Ultra-Orthodox ones like Mea Shearim and Geula), but that's kinda common courtesy as well as a good idea. Many of the basic sites are walkable from a base near the Old City, so it's easy enough to see things on your own. Of course, most shops/museums/etc. will be closed, so it depends on what you're looking for. Certainly the Temple Mount will be open (uh, assuming there isn't a security situation). You probably want to stay out of the West Bank with the possible exception of Bethlehem if things are quiet and you have a guide. You can't go to Gaza, so no point in telling you it's a bad idea.

The real question is what you want to see. There are a variety of options that will shape your visit:

1. Sites of religious significance: Stick with the Jerusalem area, Nazareth if you care about a few Christian sites, maybe Bethlehem.
2. Sites of archeological significance: Lots of stuff all over, but the Galilee has quite a number of Roman-era and later digs (some nice Crusader-era castles as well). Masada (near the Dead Sea) is a bit of a drive but normally worth a visit.
3. Nature/hiking: Hands down, either the Galilee/Golan or the Negev (south). Lots of parks, trails, etc. Depending on the weather, the south may be gorgeous and have some very nice hikes.
4. Urban life/clubbing: Tel Aviv, for sure. They've got a very lively club scene, decent music, hot girls (or guys, in your case), etc. To be honest, though, the city is pretty boring during the day; you might want to take day trips to other places in the center and just hang out in TA at night. Haifa and Jerusalem also have their own flavor of nightlife if you're so inclined, but it's far less developed than that of TA.
5. Museums/memorials: Most things are in the center of the country, along the TA-Jerusalem axis. There's some propaganda involved, but the Israel Museum in Jerusalem is pretty good, the Holocaust memorial at Yad Vashem (outside Jerusalem) is well done, the diaspora museum in TA has its points, etc.
6. Artist stuff: Two major places for artists are in Safed (in the Galilee) and in the Jerusalem area. If you're interested, there's some interesting and worthwhile stuff.
7. If you just want the resort kinda thing, you can either go to the Dead Sea hotels/beaches (not much else) or Eilat. In Eilat you can do scuba diving by the reef and the like, and by the Dead Sea there's always floating in the Dead Sea and various local springs/nature reserves like Ein Gedi. Personally I think it's a waste of time; if you're going to Israel, why spend your time doing something not that unique?
8. If you're into that kinda thing, there are lots of wineries, especially in the north. They give decent tours and many of them have great wine. A few have other bits like locally made cheese, produce, etc.

Point being, there are many different ways to experience Israel. Tell me what you're interested in and I can give you some more concrete suggestions. As you get specific about dates, there might be specific events going on you might be interested in as well.

(edit: I kinda assumed you weren't interested in Zionist sites of interest. If that's wrong, there are various IDF-related sites, independence-related museums, etc.)

One note for getting around: I don't know if you're planning on driving in Israel or not (it's a bit daunting), but the intercity train system actually works decently, and the buses in major cities aren't bad either. Doesn't work well for outlying areas, though.

[Hazir]

Well, if this happens, and I haven't even mentioned Israel to my better half yet, it would have to be a mix of some sight seeing, a couple of hours on a beach and some nightlife. Israel seems like a small country and probably if it happens we'd use TA as a basis and do short day excursions to other places. Is driving there worse than in Istanbul? And, what's probably more important, is Israel car friendly? Can you actually park your car ? Otherwise train sounds ok for me too, as long as they have latin writing too because it would probably cost me the better part of the day to figure out which train goes to Jerusalem and which to Haifa (picture 'now which letter was this again and which vowel would go there? and that for every letter of a name).

As it happens the zionist thingy DOES interest me, you know, see some of the things you heard about when you were young, it's got something special.

[wiggin]

Well, if this happens, and I haven't even mentioned Israel to my better half yet, it would have to be a mix of some sight seeing, a couple of hours on a beach and some nightlife. Israel seems like a small country and probably if it happens we'd use TA as a basis and do short day excursions to other places.

That works for the center of the country (roughly from Haifa down to Rechovot, and from the Med to Jerusalem), which is where you'll spend most of your time. If you go to Eilat or the Dead Sea (they have much better temperatures for beaches in Oct/Nov), you'll probably want to stay overnight there; it's a bit of a drive (or flight, if you want to be fancy going down to Eilat). The country is small but long, so the drive down to the Red Sea is time consuming (and in the case of the Dead Sea, you have to circle around some Palestinian areas). In general, though, using TA as a base is reasonable. You might have a long day or two if you decide to go up to the Galil or Golan or down to the Negev, but it won't be too bad.

Is driving there worse than in Istanbul? And, what's probably more important, is Israel car friendly? Can you actually park your car ? Otherwise train sounds ok for me too, as long as they have latin writing too because it would probably cost me the better part of the day to figure out which train goes to Jerusalem and which to Haifa (picture 'now which letter was this again and which vowel would go there? and that for every letter of a name).

I can't speak for Istanbul, but I imagine it's not that bad. Israeli drivers are notorious for being aggressive, but that's about it. Most signs (for both cars and public transit) are in Hebrew, Arabic, and English, though the transliterations may be amusingly off at times. Also, outside of really rural areas (e.g. some Arab villages) most people have decent enough English to give you directions - and there's about a quarter million N. Americans there, so your chances of finding a fluent English speaker in the cities aren't too bad. Some of the bus drivers might be a bit shaky, but they'll know enough to help you out.

As for 'car friendly', I'm not really sure. Parking is a HUGE problem in TA and Jerusalem (as is congestion), so you end up paying through the nose for a lot most of the time. Driving can be challenging in Jerusalem as well, since the city wasn't built with cars in mind. That being said, if you're willing to pay a bit more for rental/tolls/parking/gas, it's probably more convenient - ESPECIALLY if you want to go to a non-urban area where the buses are few and far between. If you're just sticking to cities, though, public transit might be worth it. My wife and I have never rented a car in Israel; we use trains and occasionally buses to get around inside and between cities, and use friends/family to drive us around on day trips. Since you don't have the 'friends I can mooch off of' backup plan, a car might be worth it.

If you do get a car, use Highway 6 rather than alternate routes if at all possible. It costs a bit more but is far superior.

As it happens the zionist thingy DOES interest me, you know, see some of the things you heard about when you were young, it's got something special.

I have to run, but I'll try to put up some ideas later. There's some IDF/war related museums of note, some Zionist historical points (e.g. Independence Hall in TA), and a few other odds and ends (e.g. Har Hertzl).

[Dreadnaught]

Well, if this happens, and I haven't even mentioned Israel to my better half yet, it would have to be a mix of some sight seeing, a couple of hours on a beach and some nightlife. Israel seems like a small country and probably if it happens we'd use TA as a basis and do short day excursions to other places. Is driving there worse than in Istanbul? And, what's probably more important, is Israel car friendly? Can you actually park your car ? Otherwise train sounds ok for me too, as long as they have latin writing too because it would probably cost me the better part of the day to figure out which train goes to Jerusalem and which to Haifa (picture 'now which letter was this again and which vowel would go there? and that for every letter of a name).

As it happens the zionist thingy DOES interest me, you know, see some of the things you heard about when you were young, it's got something special.

I can suggest a specific list of ideas/places if you have a sense of how long you would be there.

I actually think Tel Aviv doesn't work as a base to explore a place like Jerusalem. It's a small country, but it's not that small. Tel Aviv definitely is the place for nightlife, some interesting food and museums and they have beaches too (though I could suggest some really isolated beaches south if you're into that).

Driving there isn't terrible, sort of like driving in Spain. And as Wiggin points out, most of the road signs also are in English so it's not terrible. That said, driving to a place like Jerusalem isn't a good idea because it's a walkable city and tough to park and drive around (plus public transit is good enough).

I also don't suggest going to Jerusalem on a weekend. It's just too quiet and so much is shut down. But I do suggest spending a few days in Jerusalem. Besides the gorgeous sunsets, the place is very culturally rich if you spend some time there.

[Hazir]

Do people speak English? I mean, on average?

[wiggin]

Do people speak English? I mean, on average?

Yes, especially among younger people and urbanites. If you're asking for directions, you have a very good chance of rapidly finding someone who knows English. There's also about a quarter million N. Americans in the country, who are obviously native English speakers. Immigrants from non-European countries (especially older ones) and some rural Arabs will have poor to nonexistent English, but that's about it. There are lots of guards around public areas, and chances are good that they know English as well.


As for Zionist sites of interest, a few off the top of my head:
1) Independence Hall, Tel Aviv. Where the Declaration of Indepedence was read and signed (and I believe they have a copy there?).
2) Har Hertzl/Mount Hertzl overlooking Jerusalem. A major military cemetery where most Israeli statesmen are buried (including Hertzl, Rabin, and most PMs), along with some very famous soldiers (Yonatan Netanyahu, the Gush Lamed Heh, etc.)
3) Yad Lashiryon. This is the Armored Corps memorial/museum at Latrun, which is the site of a British fortress along the route from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It played a critical role in the siege of Jerusalem during the 1948 war, and was the site of several unsuccessful attempts by the nascent Israeli military to capture the strategically important fortress.
4) Giv'at Hatachmoshet/Ammunition Hill. This is a site more interesting to military historians than anyone else. During the 1967 war, Israel resolved about a day into the war to capture Jerusalem and stop Jordanian shelling of the capital. They decided to use paratroopers to take the city from the north, backed by an armored column. A critical site was a fortified bunker/trench system atop the aforementioned hill; Israel detailed a paratrooper company to take the hill based on faulty intelligence as to the size of the force on the hill. They captured the hill after a very bloody battle; the hill is now a memorial/park with a small museum.
5) Har Ben-Tal, the Golan Heights. This is a fortified IDF position overlooking Syria. It was the site of major running battles in the 1973 war, and happens to be next to another hill housing one of Israel's main SIGINT outposts near Syria. There's a little museum there as well as a decent cafe, and a great view of Syria. Bit of a drive from, well, anywhere else, but I've always enjoyed the view.
6) The Palmach Museum, TA. I've never actually been here, but it's supposed to be a pretty good museum detailing the history of the Palmach, the striking/combat arm of the Haganah in pre-1948 Israel.
7) Shai Agnon's house, Jerusalem. One of the founders of modern Hebrew fiction/writing Shai Agnon won a Nobel prize in literature and is one of Israel's revered cultural/Zionist figures. There's a similar home in Tel Aviv from H.N. Bialik, Israel's national poet (though he died prior to the founding of the state).

There's more where that came from, but it's a start.

[Hazir]

Hmmm.... better half was less than excited when I brought up Israel as an option. I think he was hoping for something a little bit less middle eastern.

[Dreadnaught]

There are also tons of non-Zionist things to do. It can be quite pleasant actually. In the North they have these kinds of lover's lodges, which are basically stand-alone lodges for couples with a giant hot tub and great views. For my next trip I mainly plan to see some friends, walk around Jerusalem (it's always interesting) and take a road trip somewhere isolated up north near the Lebanese border.

Israel can either fit your preconceived notions of "Middle Eastern" or totally blow them away; it's actually up to you. Worth checking out some of the articles and photos here:

http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/gui.../overview.html

[Loki]

Hmmm.... better half was less than excited when I brought up Israel as an option. I think he was hoping for something a little bit less middle eastern.

Remind him that Israel is in Eurovision and in the European region in soccer.

[Hazir]

There are also tons of non-Zionist things to do. It can be quite pleasant actually. In the North they have these kinds of lover's lodges, which are basically stand-alone lodges for couples with a giant hot tub and great views. For my next trip I mainly plan to see some friends, walk around Jerusalem (it's always interesting) and take a road trip somewhere isolated up north near the Lebanese border.

Israel can either fit your preconceived notions of "Middle Eastern" or totally blow them away; it's actually up to you. Worth checking out some of the articles and photos here:

http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/gui.../overview.html

To him that sounds like Istanbul

[Dreadnaught]

This is not like Istanbul

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=Tel+Aviv+Pride