Birth Order

[GGT]

Interesting discussion for parents as well as siblings.

My eldest son and I have been having this conversation recently---how birth order feels from parent or sibling perspective. Parents always try to claim there's no favoritism, but there is. My first borne son holds such a special place in my heart, but he never really "knew" it, because he remembered life with his little brother more. Once I started talking about the years when he was "the only one", his mood and demeanor began to change, just a little bit. We really did have a special mother-son relationship, for several years, and it seemed to me something he'd never forget. But he did.

His little brother, my second child, is also special in my heart for many reasons. Following a late miscarriage, when the first borne was about two years old, my next pregnancy was even more important than usual. I was considered an "elderly" risk. My husband didn't really have a clue. Any female bleeding pretty much meant menstruation to him. We had early bleeding and bed rest for weeks, ruling out Hydatidiform mole, then placenta previa, then gestational diabetes. But he was eventually born, and quite perfect at that. He's never known life without his older brother....

I was the youngest of three girls, with one of my mother's miscarriages in between. Later on in my life, she told me how she had severe cramps during the second trimester of her third pregnancy. How she sat on the toilet, hoping it was just gas or diarrhea, only to realize she was aborting the babe. She cried a while, then scooped the remains from the toilet and put them in a Skippy jar, to take to the doctor the next day. All by herself and all alone, never calling to her husband (my father) at the time. She just accepted that men didn't really have a clue about women's bleeding, or what it meant That made me very sad. But it also made me feel grateful that I was her fourth attempt, and third live birth.

Being the eldest or youngest carries a special status, but our middle siblings should never forget that they're special, too. They often feel like they're "competing" for attention from first borne or last borne, but they really represent hope in its purest form. And today's men should understand the difference between menstrual periods and miscarriages.

[Knux897]

So... are we speaking about the psychological effects of being born in the first, last or middle? Or are you saying men should be more understanding when it comes to miscarriages?

[Ominous Gamer]

How does that quote go....

"No one cares about the middle child"

[Dreadnaught]

The interesting question is why? This does seem to be a pretty wide-scale phenomena, but can anyone try to explain why?

[Ominous Gamer]

Once you're past your first, you understand you don't have to be so anal about everything. That naturally causes a slightly greater seperation. Not to mention learning from your mistakes.
There was a comic a few months/years back that described it perfectly. Must...find...

[Ominous Gamer]

Found the comic.

[Dreadnaught]

Funny, and that sorta makes sense. Though doesn't quite explain the emotional connection I see sometimes (and people occasionally talk about in hushed tones).

[GGT]

Great comic I read something (long time ago) about birth order and parenting style that influences a child's personality type, yeah that makes sense. But also that the birth order doesn't have to mean live births....with examples of two kids both being proverbial Type A over-achievers and eldest child traits, due to a couple of miscarriages in between. Or a third child (who's really the fourth pregnancy) being more like first-borne. With some interesting ideas about only children that really weren't.....

[Loki]

Barring OG's "variables", which probably have some effect, this seems to be no better than Zodiac signs.

[Ominous Gamer]

Barring OG's "variables", which probably have some effect, this seems to be no better than Zodiac signs.

There are a lot of variables that have small effects, but can really add up to create a situation where children have much different experiences based on their birth order.

I only named that one because the thread reminded me of the comic, but even that comic branches off in several different directions. Younger parents argueably have more energy to spend on their children. So that first born could very well end up with more face time spent horse playing, or going to the local park, or to the theme parks, doing family sports like Tee-ball, etc. So, space your kids properly and by the time you're on your 3rd, you're in your 30s; and that is a hell of a different type of life than raising kids in your 20s.
Now thats just when considering energy. I'm going to list a bunch of other avenues this can be approached with, and a lot of them overlap.

Expectations. Parents, extended family, teachers, remembering their experience of the first child and carrying that other to the next children.
Money. Younger parents haven't hit their peak career path, which means that the next children not only get left overs from the previous children, but there could be more money for better stuff. On the flip side more kids means spreading the money over more heads.
Hand me downs. Huge psychological implications when dealing with this.
Space. Older kids get the bigger space.
Face time. First born children have fewer people to compete with. While the next born have more people that focus on them (children always want to help), all the children have to learn to share the limit amount of time their parents have. Its said that this is why biting is harder to break biting the farther down the line the child is. The younger ones fight for dominance this way, while the older ones are already broken in when it comes to not harming the baby.

There are dozens of more ways to come at this, but this is a good start.

[Khendraja'aro]

Not to mention that you treat your kids differently after the first one just because you now have spares.

[Loki]

There are a lot of variables that have small effects, but can really add up to create a situation where children have much different experiences based on their birth order.

I only named that one because the thread reminded me of the comic, but even that comic branches off in several different directions. Younger parents argueably have more energy to spend on their children. So that first born could very well end up with more face time spent horse playing, or going to the local park, or to the theme parks, doing family sports like Tee-ball, etc. So, space your kids properly and by the time you're on your 3rd, you're in your 30s; and that is a hell of a different type of life than raising kids in your 20s.
Now thats just when considering energy. I'm going to list a bunch of other avenues this can be approached with, and a lot of them overlap.

Expectations. Parents, extended family, teachers, remembering their experience of the first child and carrying that other to the next children.
Money. Younger parents haven't hit their peak career path, which means that the next children not only get left overs from the previous children, but there could be more money for better stuff. On the flip side more kids means spreading the money over more heads.
Hand me downs. Huge psychological implications when dealing with this.
Space. Older kids get the bigger space.
Face time. First born children have fewer people to compete with. While the next born have more people that focus on them (children always want to help), all the children have to learn to share the limit amount of time their parents have. Its said that this is why biting is harder to break biting the farther down the line the child is. The younger ones fight for dominance this way, while the older ones are already broken in when it comes to not harming the baby.

There are dozens of more ways to come at this, but this is a good start.

The thing is that these variables affect the way a given set of parents treats their children, which means birth order by itself is going to have little to no effect. There are so many different interaction affects and many different characteristics of parents (and the environment) which all have a much larger affect on personality, making birth order a pointless one to add.

[Ominous Gamer]

There are a lot of variables that have small effects,

There are so many different interaction affects and many different characteristics of parents (and the environment) which all have a much larger affect on personality.

Thanks for agreeing with me!
There are a bunch of little things that can zeroed out and, when taken from the larger picture, ignored when raising a child. This doesn't make those little things eligible to be ignored. You can plan 20 ways to Sunday in trying to lessen or negate the effects, but in the end you're planning and adjusting for a reason.
Sure, having your mom murdered in front of you can have a greater effect on you than being middle born, but they both present expierences that can have lasting effects.

Some of the variables can be contributed as the result of other variables. Like being the youngest child to older parents doesn't mean you can't be an only child, thats why I mentioned so many of these things are tied together; that again doesn't mean they are meaningless. Only incredibly hard to control for.

[GGT]

Yep, spacing makes a big difference, too. More than four years between two children lends both to behaving more like first-borne. Large families have said every fourth child starts the first-middle-baby trait cycle again. Blended families with re-marriages face a double-doozy with kids jockeying for their "position" in the family. The dynamics are real, just not fully understood.

No, it's not scientific at all. Pretty hard to put human behavior (let alone child development) into a scientific model, but it's either something we find interesting to discuss and look around at our families or people we know. Some see it like fortune cookies and horoscopes.