Question on gas prices

[Knux897]

Perhaps this would be better suited to the other gas thread but this I believe I can get a more adequate answer through this being a topic. I'm not one to watch the news so I don't know if they even explain why gas prices rise but wherever I have looked on the internet I cannot seem to find a sufficient answer to why exactly gas prices are so high.

It is my understanding that there could be a few factors involved. The best answer I've found so far is that because oil is bought with U.S. dollars and now that the value of the dollar is down, other countries/companies can now buy it for cheaper which makes it more expensive in the U.S. But I've also heard that gas prices are made up of 30-40% tax which really pisses me off. This is such an unnecisary thing and we should be cutting unnecisary programs and reducing this tax. Also I'm not sure where I can exactly check it but does a tarrif have any significant impact on the cost?

The next possible reason is that it is becoming more and more difficult to acess and extract crude oil. Now this is understandable but how the hell does it go from being 8 cents in Saudia Arabia to $3.30 in the U.S.? I also understand that there are a shitload of conservation laws in the U.S. protecting lands that would otherwise be extracted for oil but in a time like this is that really neccisary? We have equipment for detecting pockets of oil so we won't be tearing up land right and left but the impression I get (because I live in a biased republican household) is that conservationalists are being ignorantly stupid in not letting us drill in some places where we could easily do so and reduce prices. Perhaps there are some other factors in place but this is (or what seems to be) happening.

The next point I'm curious about is why exactly does conflict in Libya and Egypt raise prices? I understand that this hinders business but isn't the U.S. one of the smaller buyers of that region? It makes sense that prices would go up but why exactly? And is it really neccisary for gas prices to go up 20 cents in one night?

Perhaps I'm also missing other factors, but if I am what else is involved? Also is there any way we can reduce these prices that the government caused because of stupid party agendas (unnecisary taxes, not drilling on our own land for stupid reasons, etc.)? And does anyone know how we are progressing with alternative fuel sources (hydrogen, electric, etc.)?

[agamemnus]

* Tax prices are not significant in the U.S. They are much higher in Europe or Canada, even.
* Transportation costs of oil is a huge part of the cost.
* I believe that some oil producing countries (like Saudi Arabia) have some sort of a reverse tax on gasoline.
* Oil speculation drives up prices. Deal with it!

[Aimless]

Out of curiosity, have you thought about possible reasons for taxing oil? Like, the benefits and not just the evils?

[Being]

Speculation creates the most volatility in oil prices. Taxes are pretty stable in comparison.

You can help

[Veldan Rath]

Cost of current gas in Maine: Around 3.25

Fed Tax: .184
Maine Tax: .252

13% of the current price is tax (which is kinda funny, as when prices go down the % of tax is higher, and the inverse)

So I'd say taxes are a large (if stable) part of the price of gas.

[Being]

Cost of current gas in Maine: Around 3.25

Fed Tax: .184
Maine Tax: .252

13% of the current price is tax (which is kinda funny, as when prices go down the % of tax is higher, and the inverse)

So I'd say taxes are a large (if stable) part of the price of gas.

It's not large in the US compared to the rest of the world.

Gas Taxes Around the World

[Knux897]

Well not that I don't feel fortunate that gas prices are lower but it seems that with any job I could possibly get, I would just be spending my paycheck on gas to get to and from there. I don't know how valid this is but I was reading about how gas will be replaced by ethanol fuels widely by 2020. I know that ethanol is mixed in with current gas (or maybe diesel? I don't know) so is it something that gas engines can run off of? And if not, then will lower demand for gas increase prices if this picks up?

[agamemnus]

Lower demand for gas increase prices? Um, lower demand decreases prices.

Ethanol production is currently less efficient than producing oil from the ground or under water... production is subsidized heavily and has wasted billions of taxpayer dollars for no gain, which politicians have realized in the past few years. This also raised world food prices (since 99% of ethanol is produced from corn, and the US produces an immense amount of food for the rest of the world) but ethanol production does keep gas prices more stable -- ethanol is produced in a stable part of the world (something like 90% in the USA), and some oil is not.

[Veldan Rath]

It's not large in the US compared to the rest of the world.

Gas Taxes Around the World

And your point is, other than in the US it's a large part and in other countries it is even larger?

[Being]

And your point is, other than in the US it's a large part and in other countries it is even larger?

That isn't how a scale works. There is zero at one end and maximum at the other. The U.S. tax on fuel is near zero when compared on a scale with Turkey or Netherlands or Britain or Germany or Norway or Belgium or France as the maximum.

[agamemnus]

Well we have already had this discussion about fuel taxes, so you're a bit late and everyone is tired. The conclusion summary was:

A) We in the US subsidize urban sprawl as well as too many (costly) roads because of our very low gas taxes -- they don't nearly pay enough to offset the cost of a car taking that gas and wearing down the roads.

B) Other countries, especially those in Europe, have 4, 5, 6 times as much tax on gas.

[Veldan Rath]

Who said anything about a scale? When Knux asked about gas prices and aga mentioned taxes not being a big piece.

They are.

Just not as much in the US as many other places.

[Being]

Who said anything about a scale? When Knux asked about gas prices and aga mentioned taxes not being a big piece.

They are.

Just not as much in the US as many other places.

13% is not a big piece of the pie. The price of crude is a big piece of the pie for the US market. In the other markets I mention above, taxes are a big piece of the pie and as such those markets are not as volatile as the US market. The US would benefit from making taxes a big piece of the pie.

[Veldan Rath]

13% is not a big piece of the pie. The price of crude is a big piece of the pie for the US market. In the other markets I mention above, taxes are a big piece of the pie and as such those markets are not as volatile as the US market. The US would benefit from making taxes a big piece of the pie.

sigh...

I'm not arguing the economics of how gas prices are volatile or not.

13% of anything is a big piece. (If not, then give me 13% of your income) I'm not saying that is unnecessary to tax that much.

Also, yes, it looks like Canada charges more than twice the tax. So what? That is not the point I'm making. The only point I was talking about the %, didn't say it was good or bad. What other countries tax is irrelevant to this particular point

[Being]

sigh...

I'm not arguing the economics of how gas prices are volatile or not.

13% of anything is a big piece. (If not, then give me 13% of your income) I'm not saying that is unnecessary to tax that much.

Also, yes, it looks like Canada charges more than twice the tax. So what? That is not the point I'm making. The only point I was talking about the %, didn't say it was good or bad. What other countries tax is irrelevant to this particular point

No, you just want to be right but you're not. 13% is not big, 87% is big. See how that works? 13+87=100. Which part is big?

[agamemnus]

87% is bigger, but you could argue that 13% is big. 13% is big relative to 0%, but not relative to 87%.

[Veldan Rath]

No, you just want to be right but you're not. 13% is not big, 87% is big. See how that works? 13+87=100. Which part is big?

Gods you are a trolling buffoon.

So I can expect you to send me 13% of your income?

[sheadunne]

No, you just want to be right but you're not. 13% is not big, 87% is big. See how that works? 13+87=100. Which part is big?

That logic isn't sound. 87% is clearly bigger than 13%, but just because something is bigger doesn't mean that one or the other isn't big. Is 49% big? It's clear that 51% is bigger, but that doesn't dismiss that 49% is big.

The term 'big' needs to be applied to the individual's overall gas budget, not to the price of an individual tank of gas. If your budget for gas for the month is $100, losing that half a tank of gas every month to a 13% tax could be the difference between making it to work or not. Is that big? I certain think so. Is it 'bigger' than a 14% tax, no, but both are equally 'big' when it comes to your income.

[RandBlade]

Gods you are a trolling buffoon.

So I can expect you to send me 13% of your income?

I wouldn't give you 1% of my income, does that mean 1% is big?

[Veldan Rath]

I wouldn't give you 1% of my income, does that mean 1% is big?

Depends upon why your are not giving it to me?

[RandBlade]

Because I want it.

Will you give me 1% of yours?

[Veldan Rath]

No, 'cause I'm an Evil Rich Guy. (And I already pay 22-23% of my annual income in income taxes and that is not including all the other taxes and fees I pay, but Being would counter that is not 'big' either)

[Nessus]

No, 'cause I'm an Evil Rich Guy. (And I already pay 22-23% of my annual income in income taxes and that is not including all the other taxes and fees I pay, but Being would counter that is not 'big' either)

I take it you walk to work and everywhere else through the woods and taiga alone.

[Veldan Rath]

I take it you walk to work and everywhere else through the woods and taiga alone.

You again show Excellent Form in Missing the Point.

I did not say that the taxes for gas in the US were too high or too low (In fact I understand that as the costs have gone up to maintain that it is something that could/should go up). I am just disagreeing that the current portion of the price of tax @ 13% is not significant (big).

[Nessus]

You again show Excellent Form in Missing the Point.

I did not say that the taxes for gas in the US were too high or too low (In fact I understand that as the costs have gone up to maintain that it is something that could/should go up). I am just disagreeing that the current portion of the price of tax @ 13% is not significant (big).

Yet with this significant contribution (sic) you purchase valuable goods. You may travel on highways, you are nation-building in two Mid-East nations, the list is endless. To pretend that your money is squandered is folly of the first order and surely you do not expect me to think you dim enough to believe it.

[Veldan Rath]

Yet with this significant contribution (sic) you purchase valuable goods. You may travel on highways, you are nation-building in two Mid-East nations, the list is endless. To pretend that your money is squandered is folly of the first order and surely you do not expect me to think you dim enough to believe it.

Where did I say any of what you just said in this thread?

ALL I SAID WAS THAT 13% IS A BIG CHUNCK OF THE PRICE

I even went bloody further to say that that % was neither good or bad earlier and just NOW in the post above yours I said that is could/should be raised as the costs have increased. What is the diconnect here?

[Nessus]

Where did I say any of what you just said in this thread?

ALL I SAID WAS THAT 13% IS A BIG CHUNCK OF THE PRICE

I even went bloody further to say that that % was neither good or bad earlier and just NOW in the post above yours I said that is could/should be raised as the costs have increased. What is the diconnect here?

Why the hostility, brother? You tried to goad me and I failed to flame you back?

Of course thirteen percent is thirteen percent. No one in their right mind would argue against it. It would take Jehova to unmake that.

The point is that 13 percent buy you goods and services.

You asked before, would Being surrender thirteen percent of his earnings to you. I would wager he might do so if you supplied him a blow-job every fortnight. Or two, he might be greedy with his cock. The point is, you rarely seem to cry about your grocery bill, but you're the first one up the barrister when taxes are concerned. This, to me, smacks of all kinds of intellectual dishonesty.

[Veldan Rath]

Why the hostility, brother? You tried to goad me and I failed to flame you back?

Of course thirteen percent is thirteen percent. No one in their right mind would argue against it. It would take Jehova to unmake that.

The point is that 13 percent buy you goods and services.

You asked before, would Being surrender thirteen percent of his earnings to you. I would wager he might do so if you supplied him a blow-job every fortnight. Or two, he might be greedy with his cock. The point is, you rarely seem to cry about your grocery bill, but you're the first one up the barrister when taxes are concerned. This, to me, smacks of all kinds of intellectual dishonesty.

<Facepalm>

The is no hostility, but you are arguing different points than what I was and then saying I'm arguing about what you are bringing up.

Again, I'm not railing about the taxes. I was just saying that 13% is not insignificant...and I don't care what other countries are paying as I was not discussing scale as Being for some reason had a boner on, and he is arguing that 13% is not big.

And of course that 13% is buying me goods and services, when did I deny that?

I'm sure that this smacks you of intellectual dishonesty, cause the idea of a Cro-magon like me would not have varied thoughts on taxes. (Or at least that suits your view of some members of this forum)

[RandBlade]

No, 'cause I'm an Evil Rich Guy. (And I already pay 22-23% of my annual income in income taxes and that is not including all the other taxes and fees I pay, but Being would counter that is not 'big' either)

Yes, but your definition of a "not big" percentage is that which Being would give his money to you. So tell me please, how do you define a "not big" percentage and when will you pay me it?

Even if its a small proportion I wouldn't give it to you. It may still be small though.

[Veldan Rath]

Yes, but your definition of a "not big" percentage is that which Being would give his money to you. So tell me please, how do you define a "not big" percentage and when will you pay me it?

Even if its a small proportion I wouldn't give it to you. It may still be small though.

I agree, but still not the thrust of my point. I think 13% is big. Being does not. Thus, if he does not, then in my clumsy way I tried to demonstrate how 13% may be argued as big.

(And you knew that).