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Thread: EMA - Education Maintainance Allowance

  1. #1

    Default EMA - Education Maintainance Allowance

    Today as part of the government's drive to lower our budget deficit, Parliament voted to abolish the "EMA", the "Education Maintainance Allowance". For any 16-19 year old in Further Education (college in the UK, High School in much of the rest of the world) whose family earned less than £21k pa they would get an "allowance" of £30 per week for attending college. This was reduced to £20 per week for those whose families earned upto approx £25k pa, and £10/week for those whose families earned upto approx £30k pa. A much smaller and more targetted scheme of support for those in need will be offered locally instead now.

    This scheme costs the government over half a billion pounds per annum.

    Frankly, I say good riddance. I don't see why the taxpayer should provide a booze and fags allowance to school kids. I have hired in my time a lot of part-time college students, some who do and some who don't receive the EMA. What they all had in common though is a lot of going out socialising.

    We wouldn't give a 5 year old an allowance from the government, I don't see why a 17 year old should get an allowance that if we're honest goes on underage drinking. If they want to be independent and be able to spend their own money they should get a part time job.

  2. #2
    Why do you insist on pretending there are enough jobs for everyone who needs one, let alone wants one?
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  3. #3
    Because there are.

    And if you can't get a job, don't go out drinking. Simples.

  4. #4
    College kids in the UK who can't find a job get through college on booze?

    Fuck man, all my money went to those new edition textbooks.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Because there are.
    If you say so it must be true, right?

    Wrong!
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    College kids in the UK who can't find a job get through college on booze?

    Fuck man, all my money went to those new edition textbooks.
    College in the UK is High School in the US. Do US High School students get an allowance from the State?

    Being: What's your point? We pay people not to work. Your link provides no evidence of how many job vacancies there are.

  7. #7
    We can qualify for free breakfast and lunch, which could be about $20 a week.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    We can qualify for free breakfast and lunch, which could be about $20 a week.
    We have that as well, and transport subsidies - local authorities have a legal duty to ensure students have transport to school/college, this is on top of that.

  9. #9
    yes rand, we have school buses to
    do you guys have a super college or something then, since this is only high school, and I'm assuming required to some level.

  10. #10
    Exactly. Do you have a $50/week allowance of free money to students on top of food and transport?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Dandy Bladey
    I don't see why the taxpayer should provide a booze and fags allowance to school kids.
    The heart of right-wing thinking everywhere, spelled out for the world to see, people. Shame tops money.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    The heart of right-wing thinking everywhere, spelled out for the world to see, people. Shame tops money.
    You think we should provide a booze and fags allowance to kids? Why?

  13. #13
    Well I'd say I have issues with my tax-money going to 16-19 year olds in low-income families in the form of a weekly cash allowance. I don't disagree that in a sizeable proportion of instances this would be just so much disposable pocket money to the yoofs.

    There would need to be a means test, but the current use of blanket categories of <£21k pa, then >£21kpa<£25kpa is too broad. Distance of school would need to be taken into account, and working hours of parents combined with parent's transportation also needs to be factored in. All this would lead to a bureacratic nightmare of French proportions, and probably not save any money at all.

    Sooo ... why not have buses that run from colleges, just as most schools have? I'd have no issues with my tax-money going on college buses.

    Or subsidized travel-cards and Oyster cards for access to public transport.

    ~

    There are those kids in college who do fall well outside 'the norm', too. And I fully support public enterprise in assisting those kids:

    A school will launch an unprecedented appeal tomorrow to create an accommodation centre for homeless pupils after discovering that a sixth former had spent four months sleeping rough in a London park.

    The proposed centre at Quintin Kynaston school in St John's Wood, London, will have up to a dozen beds and will be open to students who have been made homeless as well as those who need a temporary place to shelter from a family crisis.

    While there are a number of state boarding schools, the creation of accommodation for homeless pupils marks a significant departure. Quintin Kynaston is not the only school looking at a radical solution to the problem – an academy school in Kent is also exploring a residential option for its pupils.

    Quintin Kynaston's headteacher, Jo Shuter, said: "We have currently got about 10 students in the sixth form who are living in hostel accommodation, and probably another 30 who are right on the precipice and could drop over.

    "Sixteen to 18 is the most vulnerable age. That's the time when kids cope with significant hardship."

    The £3m appeal to create Quintin Kynaston House will be launched with the backing of celebrities including Kieran Gibbs, Arsenal and England player, and Madness singer Suggs, who is a former pupil. The school is also appealing for experts who can help it to apply for charitable status and handle the legal aspects of a property purchase.

    Robyn Kelly, 17, a pupil who moved to a young women's hostel after a row with her mother on New Year's Day, said: "It's impossible to do any work [at the hostel]. I spent this weekend at a friend's house trying to catch up. It's not only other residents making noise. There's no one there to help me if I get stuck.

    "The kitchens aren't clean enough and I don't feel safe cooking in a place with shared fridges. Once, one of my cooking pots was stolen and for a few months I had to buy microwaveable meals and keep them in a cupboard."

    The school fears homelessness among pupils is likely to get worse as cutbacks to social services and education spending start to affect them.

    Every sixth former at Quintin Kynaston school currently claims the education maintenance allowance – a weekly payment of up to £30 for poorer teenagers staying on in the classroom that has been scrapped by the coalition.

    Those claiming it will get it until the end of the academic year, but it closes to new applicants in January and will be stopped completely in the next academic year.

    Homeless pupils at the school include a boy who was sleeping in Hyde Park when he joined to study for his A-levels.

    "He was one of the brightest kids I've ever come across and he was sleeping in Hyde Park for four months," said Shuter.

    "His mother had mental health issues and things went from bad to worse, until one day he got home and found all his stuff in a bag. She told him he couldn't come home.

    "We got him into a hostel, which is where he still is. At least he's got a bed."

    The Marlowe academy in Ramsgate is also looking at creating a residential unit after discovering several pupils were homeless two years ago.

    Gabrielle Wilson, who works with the academy's sponsor and former Saga chairman, Roger De Haan, said: "There are a number of young people at any one time who are sofa-surfing because of a breakdown in the relationship with their families. I wouldn't say there's any more than half a dozen at any one time.

    "The local FE college has a very similar problem, so there might be a need for a larger unit."

    Its pupils leave home for a range of reasons including family breakdown – sometimes because a new stepfather moves in – and parental pressure to drop out of education after 16, Wilson said.

    Quintin Kynaston school is rated outstanding by Ofsted, which noted in its latest report that it "works relentlessly to overcome barriers to learning … for some students the barriers are considerable".
    Catering for such kids should be carried out by the state, not charities and appeals for funds.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 01-20-2011 at 12:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Well I'd say I have issues with my tax-money going to 16-19 year olds in low-income families in the form of a weekly cash allowance. I don't disagree that in a sizeable proportion of instances this would be just so much disposable pocket money to the yoofs.

    There would need to be a means test, but the current use of blanket categories of <£21k pa, then >£21kpa<£25kpa is too broad. Distance of school would need to be taken into account, and working hours of parents combined with parent's transportation also needs to be factored in. All this would lead to a bureacratic nightmare of French proportions, and probably not save any money at all.

    Sooo ... why not have buses that run from colleges, just as most schools have? I'd have no issues with my tax-money going on college buses.

    Or subsidized travel-cards and Oyster cards for access to public transport.

    ~

    There are those kids in college who do fall well outside 'the norm', too. And I fully support public enterprise in assisting those kids:
    Agreed 100%
    Catering for such kids should be carried out by the state, not charities and appeals for funds.
    In an ideal world, yes. However it's more complicated than that. There is for example a legal obligation by the state on councils to provide accommodation for all mothers with children. Result is many 16 year olds who get pregnant get 'kicked out' of their parents home jumping to the top of the queue for a Council House. Many are on waiting lists for Council Houses for a long time already because others jump the queue.

    Eliminate the children rule and you'll find a lot more than 10 pupils next year will be made homeless by their parents unfortunately.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You think we should provide a booze and fags allowance to kids? Why?


    Yes

    This is what I think, and in general this is how left-wing thought works

    We resent you, the worker

    We want to steal your money

    I mean quite literally to rob you of it

    And then throw that money out into the wind

    Some schools of left-wing thought want to piss on the money before we throw it into the wind

    It's a big debate, let me tell you

    A debate we have behind closed, left-wing doors

    Where we get stinking drunk using money we robbed

    From you!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  16. #16
    I knew that already.

  17. #17


    Okay!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  18. #18
    It's why we have a political cycle. You lefties outnumber us righties, get into power, steal our money, get so blind drunk on it that you forget to vote at the next election so we take power; stop you stealing quite as much of our money, you guys sober up long enough to hobble over to the polling station and the cycle resumes ...

  19. #19
    If this was for "university" kids who are nominally living on their own, I could see some kind of low-income justification. But these kids are still living at home. I doubt they are actually staying in school just for that weekly cash.

    And if that 20 lbs is the only thing keeping them in school, I think you have bigger problems and should divert the money to something more constructive. Like padlocks on the outsides of classrooms.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2
    There are those kids in college who do fall well outside 'the norm', too. And I fully support public enterprise in assisting those kids:
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Agreed 100%
    Sounds like your main complaint isn't the tax assistance itself, but giving checks to kids who may "blow the money on booze and fags".

    In an ideal world, yes. However it's more complicated than that. There is for example a legal obligation by the state on councils to provide accommodation for all mothers with children. Result is many 16 year olds who get pregnant get 'kicked out' of their parents home jumping to the top of the queue for a Council House. Many are on waiting lists for Council Houses for a long time already because others jump the queue.

    Eliminate the children rule and you'll find a lot more than 10 pupils next year will be made homeless by their parents unfortunately.
    That's something broader than educational assistance, though. You're complaining about (what you've called in other threads) "incentives for having kids by people who can't afford kids".


    (I've never quite understood your "Council Houses" scheme.....because it's portrayed as "giving a house" to certain disadvantaged and/or low income people. And that only certain places are "Council Houses", something similar to what we used to call "The Projects" that failed miserably. UK landlords anywhere and everywhere can't enroll in programs to accept government subsidized rent checks from qualified tenants? )

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    If this was for "university" kids who are nominally living on their own, I could see some kind of low-income justification. But these kids are still living at home. I doubt they are actually staying in school just for that weekly cash.

    And if that 20 lbs is the only thing keeping them in school, I think you have bigger problems and should divert the money to something more constructive. Like padlocks on the outsides of classrooms.
    Well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Sounds like your main complaint isn't the tax assistance itself, but giving checks to kids who may "blow the money on booze and fags".
    Absolutely. If people need targetted assistance for a particular reason we should and are able to offer it. Many colleges etc can offer "hardship funds". What is not needed is state-granted pocket money of the equivalent of over $50 a week.
    That's something broader than educational assistance, though. You're complaining about (what you've called in other threads) "incentives for having kids by people who can't afford kids".
    I've never used those exact words, but as a general gist. I must say there probably aren't that many people who deliberately try to have kids in order to gain benefits - there are plenty however who sleep around without protection because they don't care if they do. The problem with what Timbuk2 proposed is worse though in that you wouldn't even need to have a kid.
    (I've never quite understood your "Council Houses" scheme.....because it's portrayed as "giving a house" to certain disadvantaged and/or low income people. And that only certain places are "Council Houses", something similar to what we used to call "The Projects" that failed miserably. UK landlords anywhere and everywhere can't enroll in programs to accept government subsidized rent checks from qualified tenants? )
    People with a "Council House" are given a state-owned house that they have life-long tenure over, even if their needs change. There are MPs in Parliament earning hundreds of thousands of pounds still living in the Council Houses they got when they "needed" it when they were young. "Rent" on the homes are massively below market rates, frequently paid for by the state. The state pays to update, maintain etc the house.

    Some do live in privately owned accomodation while many Council Houses are now owned and operated by private "Housing Trusts" or charities rather than the local Council.

    Finally under Thatcher it was made the law that tenants of Council Houses have a right to buy their home, at a rate significantly below market rates. This has resulted IIRC in a change from less than 30% of the UK living in privately owned homes in 1979 to over 70% by 1990, so many estates are now refered to as "ex-Council". These typically have lower values than an equivalent but always private house would do (largely because of who would be living in the neighbourhood).

    The current government has controversially proposed to abolish life-tenure for houses for any new tenants (Still maintaining it for existing ones).

  22. #22
    We have that sort of an allowance here. It made life a great deal easier for my mum and my sis and I reckon they aren't the only decent people living in Sweden today. The idea isn't to pay kids to go to school, but to make life easier for them and their parents while they go to school. Some kids in hard-up households do great and maintain both their grades and their mental health while holding down part time jobs. Some kids do not. We don't know which are which beforehand and it's cruel, destructive to try to find out through misguided experiments.

    You mentioned that the allowance amounted to about half a billion pounds per year, but you don't mention the return they get or have gotten on this investment. Instead you only bring up your coloured perception of the situation, which is that all of it is being spent on booze and cigarettes and that the only reasonable solution to this unacceptable problem is to do away with the allowance entirely.

    I don't buy it, although I'll grant you that through years of being subjugated by people like you the under-class of the UK has become totally fucked up.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  23. #23
    Pfff, paying kids to go to school... who the hell would want to do that unless they REALLY wanted to ruin education??! Knowing how well this strategy works
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  24. #24
    Hold on a second, if its to assist the parents to pay the bills, then surely it should go to the parents? How does giving a teenager £30 a week ($50) assist the mother? Secondly, why would a mother of a teenager above the age of 16 struggle, but a mother of one, two, three, four or more children under the age of 16 struggle significantly less to the point that they don't need any support at all? Are 1, 2, 5, 10 or 13 year olds less expensive for a mother than 16 year olds and why?

    How about if parents need support we introduce support to assist the parents and make it available for those parents with children of any age? We could pick a name like Child Support, or Child Benefit, or a Child Tax Credit ... Oh wait, we have that already.

    Furthermore I didn't say we should do away with the allowance entirely, I said we should replace it with targetted support for those who need it.

    The underclass in the UK have become totally fucked up by people like you, not me. There are generations of people now who have lived in house where no parent has worked, what message does that give to the kids? One just needs to see the f***ed up mess of people on the "Jeremy Kyle Show" (Britain's answer to Jerry Springer) to see the sort of human refuse I'm talking about and its not of my making.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Hold on a second, if its to assist the parents to pay the bills, then surely it should go to the parents? How does giving a teenager £30 a week ($50) assist the mother?
    Arguably it assists them both, but I don't think there's anything wrong with giving it to the parents rather than straight to the teens. Look, there's an alternative you may have tried before abolishing the whole thing! Why didn't you? Oh right because the mums would spend it on booze and fags, right?

    Secondly, why would a mother of a teenager above the age of 16 struggle, but a mother of one, two, three, four or more children under the age of 16 struggle significantly less to the point that they don't need any support at all? Are 1, 2, 5, 10 or 13 year olds less expensive for a mother than 16 year olds and why?
    I have no idea how much kids cost (or can reasonably cost) at different ages once you exclude things like healthcare. Clothes more expensive? Smaller discounts? More food? Costs for social and/or extracurricular activities? Bras? Tampons? Hairspray? I know there are tables somewhere in every single welfare state, if you find some feel free to share. Frankly if parents get NOTHING for their younger kids then there's something wrong with your nation. Or I suppose it's because you don't want five-year-olds spending money on booze and fags.

    How about if parents need support we introduce support to assist the parents and make it available for those parents with children of any age? We could pick a name like Child Support, or Child Benefit, or a Child Tax Credit ... Oh wait, we have that already.
    Secondly, why would a mother of a teenager above the age of 16 struggle, but a mother of one, two, three, four or more children under the age of 16 struggle significantly less to the point that they don't need any support at all? Are 1, 2, 5, 10 or 13 year olds less expensive for a mother than 16 year olds and why?
    So RB, I see you are lying...

    Furthermore I didn't say we should do away with the allowance entirely, I said we should replace it with targetted support for those who need it.
    I thought that's what you were already attempting to do by basing it on how much the family earns.

    The underclass in the UK have become totally fucked up by people like you, not me. There are generations of people now who have lived in house where no parent has worked, what message does that give to the kids? One just needs to see the f***ed up mess of people on the "Jeremy Kyle Show" (Britain's answer to Jerry Springer) to see the sort of human refuse I'm talking about and its not of my making.
    Of course it's due to people like you; people like me made Norway, Sweden and Finland. Why don't you pull the other one, it's got bells on

    EDIT: By "people like you" I mostly mean Brits, notably those with bad teeth and poor cooking skills
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  26. #26
    No govt. should giving money to minors. there are already people who's responsibility it is to take care them, their parents. If the parents are in a bad situation and need public assistance, that is who should be applying for and receiving it. This EMA was/is going directly to the students? Insane.
    The worst job in the world is better than being broke and homeless

  27. #27
    Look, there's an alternative you may have tried before abolishing the whole thing! Why didn't you?

    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  28. #28
    How on Earth can you guys defend your country with that kind of meager defense spending.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  29. #29
    It's actually forth largest on the planet. Unfortunately, it seems to be viewed primarily as a means of transferring public money to BAE Systems, with the secondary benefit of occasionally delivering ships, tanks and planes to the armed forces. But that's another thread.
    The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
    The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
    When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
    I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun

  30. #30
    Once again, is there anything big in these massive "others" that I see keep popping up in pie charts and tables about the British budget?

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