Instigating Insurrection, Trial By Senate

[Aimless]

If that were the case then Dems wouldn't be pushing for it. I don't have a crystal ball but it feels like the left thinks the conditions in the country won't be great for their electoral chances in 2/4 years.

Sure, your reasoning makes sense if you also do not care about the harm he has done to the nation as a whole. See, if Democrats had their heads stuck so far up their asses that they only cared about harming the Republican party electorally, they would consider Trump an asset. But, because they share a country with Republicans, and know that Trump will harm everyone—even more than he already has—they will push to have him punished in every way possible. Criminals who attack democracy, get hundreds of thousands of people killed, and traumatize thousands of children and their parents must be punished and prevented from ever being able to do anything like that again. It's a matter of principle and a matter of self-preservation. For people who don't have their heads stuck up their asses

[LittleFuzzy]

True enough. I will add this additional note. Since we are talking about one specific action here (I will always retain hope that New York will get him for financial crimes, from before, during, or after his tenure in the White House, since those most certainly AREN'T part of his job as President, but that's a different matter), where's the jurisdiction? It was done in DC. So federal authority. FBI, maybe Homeland Security or Capitol Police? If impeachment fails, do you think the new administration is going to continue trying to go after him to get this kind of conviction? Even if we ignore whether the new Biden adminstration wants to continue, Biden himself is one of those professional politicians who has allowed the immunity doctrine to develop and flourish and will now be benefiting from it himself.

It probably shouldn't be the case but the politicians decided they were more interested in protecting themselves than the public interest some time ago.

I don't see those with their hands on the reins of federal authority now making themselves vulnerable for the future, if they have to in order to take aim at Trump for a third time. They'll say "let it go, it's time to heal and reconcile" instead.

[Wraith]

I don't have a clue how this'll go. I think offering Trump a pardon is the best move that Biden could make here. I also hate the idea of Trump getting a pardon instead of a long and drawn-out humiliation from bankruptcy and relocation to a penitentiary. I have no idea what Biden is going to do, but I think you're right and he's probably not going to be pursuing Trump with any kind of vigor.

[Aimless]

Afaict, the question of whether or not a former president is immune from prosecution for criminal acts committed during their tenure as president is not a settled matter, but that one should lean more towards the assumption that they can.

Although the exchanges in question were a little ambiguous, during Mueller's hearing, he agreed that Trump could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice after leaving office—without clarifying that it would have to be for new acts of obstruction, and, instead, implying that it would be for his obstruction as president.

Another source of encouragement are the opinions from Nixon v Fitzgerald, where justices appear to indicate that a former president might not/should not be immune from prosecution for crimes—in this context, criminal acts outside the scope of their official duties—they committed while in office. The most directly relevant passages are cited here: https://www.justsecurity.org/44264/s...dent-indicted/

I must conclude that the claim that "... a court (in the US anyway) can't convict him for his actions as President, only the Senate can" is, at the very least, overstated.

[Steely Glint]

That low, huh.

[Wraith]

Probably higher, but they're scared of his supporters. They'll start an armed insurrection on his command and he's even willing to send them to hang his own VP if he feels slighted, after all. I'm willing to bet that some of the Republicans who vote against impeachment/conviction are secretly hoping for it.

[Loki]

Probably higher, but they're scared of his supporters. They'll start an armed insurrection on his command and he's even willing to send them to hang his own VP if he feels slighted, after all. I'm willing to bet that some of the Republicans who vote against impeachment/conviction are secretly hoping for it.

I meant a quarter of self-identifying Republican voters.

[GGT]

What's the percentage of "self-identifying Republicans" who'll admit the GOP has become a cult? Are any of them sitting US Senators?

[GGT]

The only way spineless (R) senators would vote to convict is if they used "anonymous" ballots. Is there anything in the rules preventing that?

[GGT]

Plan B is a Censure Resolution -- that would bar Trump from holding elected office again?

[Wraith]

I'm here for all three.

[Loki]

Evidence of the great departure. To figure out the real number, look at the percentage of Republicans who've left in the states where party registration is a thing.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-after-capitol

[Aimless]

Twitter Link

Ya hate to see it...

[Wraith]

Butch Bowers and Deborah Barbier, who were expected to be two of the lead attorneys, are no longer on the team. A source familiar with the changes said it was a mutual decision for both to leave the legal team. As the lead attorney, Bowers assembled the team.

Josh Howard, a North Carolina attorney who was recently added to the team, has also left, according to another source familiar with the changes. Johnny Gasser and Greg Harris, from South Carolina, are no longer involved with the case, either.

No other attorneys have announced they are working on Trump's impeachment defense.

A person familiar with the departures told CNN that Trump wanted the attorneys to argue there was mass election fraud and that the election was stolen from him rather than focus on the legality of convicting a president after he's left office. Trump was not receptive to the discussions about how they should proceed in that regard.

tl;dr: Trump wanted his lawyers to perjure themselves for him, they decided they'd rather go do something else.