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Thread: American Civil War 2

  1. #31
    They are supposed to be loyal to the position, not the person, but with Trump who knows. They have done everything right so far in protecting the president elect. So thats a good sign.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    What makes you so sure? Besides wishful thinking that is.

    I think it'll probably be ok. But what if Trump refuses to leave office because he claims the election is fraudulent? Or if some states send electors that don't match their state's results? What then?
    If there is one thing the American people love more than their beloved president it is their beloved democracy.

    That Trump has lost, and indeed will have lost by every single one of the rules which lay the foundation of that Democracy come 8th December, will be acknowledged by the vast majority of the American republic including the GOP, a few cranks notwithstanding. In other words, the American right would rather lose their president than lose their democracy.

    Talk of 'civil war' is the talk of movies, the more outrageous kind. It's plain silly.

    Interesting reading of some of the facts around if Trump does indeed refuse to relinquish office here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...president-coup
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    And who commands the secret service? The cabinet will presumably support Trump and not acknowledge they're not in power anymore. If they get conflicting orders who will decide which orders are valid?
    From 12 noon on 20th January 2021 Biden will do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #34
    Shit just got real.

    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  5. #35
    Trump is reportedly 'very aware' he lost the election but is putting up a fight as 'theater'

    So there you go. Sorry, no civil war this time, Trump knows he's out, he just doing this as publicity for a new media company and his 2024 presidential run.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Trump is reportedly 'very aware' he lost the election but is putting up a fight as 'theater'

    So there you go. Sorry, no civil war this time, Trump knows he's out, he just doing this as publicity for a new media company and his 2024 presidential run.
    So now people speculating about what other people think is evidence?
    Congratulations America

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    That Trump has lost, and indeed will have lost by every single one of the rules which lay the foundation of that Democracy come 8th December, will be acknowledged by the vast majority of the American republic including the GOP, a few cranks notwithstanding. In other words, the American right would rather lose their president than lose their democracy.

    [...]

    If there is one thing the American people love more than their beloved president it is their beloved democracy.
    Sure—so much so that a third of them would proudly and automatically correct your assertion by explaining that the US is not a democracy.

    I hear you're saying, but I think it's important to nuance this take. Much of the US is and has long been ruled by a party representing a minority of voters accustomed to yielding disproportionate political power by leveraging antimajoritarian and indeed antidemocratic features of the US political & electoral system. The democracy these people love is not the same democracy as the one their opponents—and most of the developed world—loves.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Sure—so much so that a third of them would proudly and automatically correct your assertion by explaining that the US is not a democracy.

    I hear you're saying, but I think it's important to nuance this take. Much of the US is and has long been ruled by a party representing a minority of voters accustomed to yielding disproportionate political power by leveraging antimajoritarian and indeed antidemocratic features of the US political & electoral system. The democracy these people love is not the same democracy as the one their opponents—and most of the developed world—loves.
    The irony of course is that a system designed to keep out populist is used by a populist to crowbar himself in.

    Good catch on a huge number of Americans being pedantic on the faux difference between a democracy and a republic.
    Congratulations America

  10. #40
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #41
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  12. #42
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    I am still not certain the duly elected president will be inaugurated come January 20th.
    Congratulations America

  13. #43
    I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #44
    Totally normal country:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I am still not certain the duly elected president will be inaugurated come January 20th.
    The only way he doesn't is if he dies first, at this point. Certified results made it in by Dec 8th, and Congress doesn't have the authority to reject them, even if someone tried to send in an alternate slate of electors (which the various state legislatures show no signs of doing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Totally normal country:


    Truly bizarre even for grand-standing. And supposing there is a majority on the Court willing to try and overturn the election (which the rejection of the filing out of Pennsylvania shows there isn't) they'd still never do so under the notion that officials in one state have legal standing to file suit against another state's purely internal legislating. That'd be opening a never-ending nightmare of suits for the Court.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Truly bizarre even for grand-standing.
    Original AG just wants a pardon, and a pointless useless stunt like this is exactly the type of thing Trump would be impressed by.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 12-10-2020 at 01:23 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  17. #47
    I know Paxton, the AG, would love a federal pardon except he's not going to be charged federally while Trump is still in office and the charges he's already facing are state charges which federal action doesn't do a thing against And the AG, of all people in the state, is aware of those distinctions.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    The only way he doesn't is if he dies first, at this point. Certified results made it in by Dec 8th, and Congress doesn't have the authority to reject them, even if someone tried to send in an alternate slate of electors (which the various state legislatures show no signs of doing).




    Truly bizarre even for grand-standing. And supposing there is a majority on the Court willing to try and overturn the election (which the rejection of the filing out of Pennsylvania shows there isn't) they'd still never do so under the notion that officials in one state have legal standing to file suit against another state's purely internal legislating. That'd be opening a never-ending nightmare of suits for the Court.
    It's easy to say that after the 8th, but I didn't write that after the 8th.
    Congratulations America

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It's easy to say that after the 8th, but I didn't write that after the 8th.

    So you didn't, my apologies. Don't know why the "go to new post" took me to yours, I've read the thread since then, but it did and I didn't look at the dates. Mea culpa.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  21. #51
    Shit, the states of New California and New Nevada have joined the fray:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #52
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Aren't those loonie movements from people who don't recognize the authority of the federal government? Which makes them joining a lawsuit to get the federal supreme court to interfere with a state's election results ironic to say the least.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  23. #53
    And the suit was kicked for lack of standing. I liked how Alito and Thomas' dissent from that said that they thought the state should be heard but they weren't going to grant any injunctive relief so Paxton would have been free to argue the case sometime late next year, "No, no, making a statement about lack of standing is getting too involved in this stupidity. Grant the motion and then just wait for them to withdraw it. If someone still wants to argue for some reason, we'll kick it for there being no continuing justiciable conflict or controversy."
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  24. #54
    Good to see those patriotic Texans call for secession. I'm sure Lewk will condemn their treason.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    And the suit was kicked for lack of standing. I liked how Alito and Thomas' dissent from that said that they thought the state should be heard but they weren't going to grant any injunctive relief so Paxton would have been free to argue the case sometime late next year, "No, no, making a statement about lack of standing is getting too involved in this stupidity. Grant the motion and then just wait for them to withdraw it. If someone still wants to argue for some reason, we'll kick it for there being no continuing justiciable conflict or controversy."
    I'm not sure if lack of standing is the desired ground for rejection. After all states have a vested interest in electoral process in other states. It might have made more sense to reject on the basis of the timing of the suit; the decision to change rules on postal voting was taken months ago.
    Congratulations America

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Good to see those patriotic Texans call for secession. I'm sure Lewk will condemn their treason.
    No way. A burned Target is what brings him out on the barricades. Actually tearing down the United States he can live with.
    Congratulations America

  27. #57
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tex...abiding-states

    The leader of the Republican Party in Texas suggested Friday that “law-abiding states” might want to form their own "union," after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected the Lone Star State’s lawsuit over the 2020 presidential election, according to reports.

    The high court’s decision was the latest legal setback in GOP efforts to overturn Nov. 3 results that gave Democrat Joe Biden a victory over President Trump, denying Trump a second four-year term.


    Texas asserted it had a right “to demand that all other States abide by the constitutionally set rules in appointing presidential electors to the electoral college.” It claimed that other states suffered whenever one state “violates federal law to affect the outcome of a presidential election."


    But the court dismissed the case based on that issue, according to The Associated Press. It said that Texas “has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections.”


    After the ruling, Allen West, a former Florida congressman who has headed the Texas GOP since July, issued a response.


    “The Supreme Court, in tossing the Texas lawsuit that was joined by seventeen states and 106 US congressman, [has] decreed that a state can take unconstitutional actions and violate its own election law -- resulting in damaging effects on other states that abide by the law, while the guilty state suffers no consequences,” West wrote, according to KTVT-TV of Dallas-Fort Worth.


    “This decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the U.S. Constitution and not be held accountable,” West continued. “This decision will have far-reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic.
    So, remember at the start of all this, the news networks don't get to call the winner of an election, the courts do.
    But when the courts do, the courts don't get to call the winner of an election, the Supreme Court does.
    But when the Supreme Court doesn't play ball: screw you guys, we're going full treason now.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  28. #58
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    If there is one thing the American people love more than their beloved president it is their beloved democracy.
    Right. The number of people I've seen going: "But we're not a democracy, we're a republic!" (couple with an obligatory "derp!") suggests otherwise.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post

    Aren't lawyers licenced in America? How does anyone think for a second this would class as evidence?
    I'm waiting for the ABA to sanction Powell, Giuliani, et al for bringing frivolous lawsuits, and breaching their oaths to protect and defend the Law according to the Constitution. These people shouldn't be allowed to "practice" law while they undermine and subvert it, like gangsters or grifters.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I'm not sure if lack of standing is the desired ground for rejection. After all states have a vested interest in electoral process in other states.
    Not a legal or constitutional one. The mechanism by which states are allowed to express interest in another states purely internal legislation is Congress and the application of the federal supremacy clause. Though in this particular case even that doesn't work. State legislatures choose how their electors are to be selected, period. Second paragraph of Article 2. Congress' power is limited to selecting the time they must choose their electors and the day the electors must cast their ballots. They do not have any Constitutional requirement, for instance, to put it to a popular vote at all. In the early years a number of states saw them appointed directly by the state legislatures. Some states switched between putting it to some sort of popular vote and appointing them. I know Massachusetts went back and forth for a while. This doesn't mean they can actually roll back and take it away from a general vote in the real world anymroe, it's merely to illustrate how it's not something for other states to try and intervene in or dictate on.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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