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Thread: The Clown Circus

  1. #271
    And yet everyone was still out and about up until the 24th, because we weren't in actual lockdown. Like I said, I was still travelling in to the office - it was still open - it hadn't been locked down and nor had I.

    See, words are important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  2. #272
    We weren't out and about. I didn't see my mother on Mother's Day or my grandparents, first year ever I didn't see my mum on Mother's Day (we chatted via Portal instead). Do you remember what you did on Mother's Day?

    And it wouldn't surprise me if Russ is lying about what Hancock said. Any time I've ever seen Hancock speak about the 16th he's very clear that he spoke against non-essential travel etc on the 16th.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #273

  4. #274
    Doctor Who must have been behind this newspaper headline from 17 March.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #275

  6. #276
    Again, words are important.

    The UK, as was the rest of Europe, was coming to terms with what was very apparently becoming a global epidemic. Hasty guidelines were being put in place regarding social distancing, avoiding crowded spaces etc.

    The point at which the UK, later than the rest of Europe but still, realised that it needed actual policy backed up by law and not just guidelines, was the point at which the country locked down. That was following the Prime Minister's speech on the evening of the 23rd. Lockdown became accepted as the conditions we were under from that point forward.

    I refer you to the national papers published on the 24th March:

    Click to view the full version

    Click to view the full version

    Click to view the full version

    Click to view the full version

    Click to view the full version

    Click to view the full version


    Now you can infer what you like, but it is clear to me that the national perception was that we under an enforced lockdown from the 24th onwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  7. #277
    Yes lockdown was finalised on 23rd March but it started to be implemented on 16th exactly like I said.

    Do you honestly think that saying to stop all non-essential travel, closing all schools in the country, closing all bars, pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc in the country is not a part of lockdown? Do you honestly think that was pre-lockdown?

    Lockdown was completed on the 24th but it had begun before then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #278
    How quaint that Brits are arguing about dates of "lockdown"....while the US president is arguing about "best" mortality rates (while also trying to steer golf tournaments to his properties in Scotland).

  9. #279
    If it's all the same I believe what the Health Secretary told the House of Commons.

  10. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Do you honestly think that saying to stop all non-essential travel, closing all schools in the country, closing all bars, pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc in the country is not a part of lockdown? Do you honestly think that was pre-lockdown?
    Yes.

    For the third time, words are important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  11. #281
    Well I think its a petty, pedantic and meaningless distinction.

    SAGE advised action to be taken on the 16th. It was immediately started on the 16th with an immediate change of the advice followed by a rolling order of compulsory closures over the week culminating in it being completely legally mandated by the 24th. Happy with that?

    I certainly felt under lockdown on Mother's Day. Do either of you two remember what you did on Mother's Day this year? If you had a meal booked was it cancelled or go ahead?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #282
    Does that mean Trump's property in Scotland won't be hosting that big golf event?

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Yes.

    For the third time, words are important.
    I agree, a lot of people need the government to spell it out to them before they start to apply common sense to their behavior.

    I saw it very clearly at the beginning of the crisis, while I was maximizing work from home and using hand sanitizer on a regular basis, also avoiding public transport and crowded places, I got the reaction why I was worrying so much about a common flu. Only when government published guidelines things started to change. Interestingly enough everybody instantaneously forgot there were government guidelines and not rules besides the 1,5m distancing, which was an actual rule.
    Trump: Lock him up.

  14. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Well I think its a petty, pedantic and meaningless distinction.
    Well, the fact that I, my colleagues, the rest of this city and indeed much of the rest of the country were allowed to travel in to their place of work, pick up a sandwich and a coffee on the way in, work all day in said offices, and travel home again, and then the following day we were not allowed to do any of that, because we were suddenly locked down, is not petty or pedantic or meaningless, it is quite the opposite.

    I'll try to make it clearer: One day you're allowed by law to do a number of things, and the next day by law you are not. The distinction is not petty and it most certainly has meaning.

    That's as clear as I can be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  15. #285
    *checking thread title*

    Pandemics have a way of turning everything upside down and inside out. Challenging everything we've expected from government officials, and ourselves.

    The whole world has been tossed into chaos, a "circus" by a new/unknown microbe. What are you guys *actually* fighting about? If it's politics, you know the virus isn't aware and doesn't care, right?

  16. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Well, the fact that I, my colleagues, the rest of this city and indeed much of the rest of the country were allowed to travel in to their place of work, pick up a sandwich and a coffee on the way in, work all day in said offices, and travel home again, and then the following day we were not allowed to do any of that, because we were suddenly locked down, is not petty or pedantic or meaningless, it is quite the opposite.

    I'll try to make it clearer: One day you're allowed by law to do a number of things, and the next day by law you are not. The distinction is not petty and it most certainly has meaning.

    That's as clear as I can be.
    You could work from the office yes, but you were being told you shouldn't by the government. And this is what you posted on 16 March.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    On a conference call this morning (my London office are all instructed to work from home for the forseeable). Chit chat before the meeting kicks off, colleague 1 (UK) asks colleague 2 (India) how his sickness is going. Colleague 2 responds that his fever seems a bit better but the cough is still there so he decided to come into the office. Cue



    from colleague 1 and myself.

    I know India hasn't been badly affected yet, but come on
    People are trying to misleadingly suggest the government got the advice on the 16th and did nothing for a week. Its not true, they got the advice on the 16th then passed it on . . . on the 16th. And then started changing the law shutting down schools, then pubs, restaurants etc then everything else but it was all immediately told it should stop on the 16th and as you said on the 16th your office was doing that then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #287
    It appears my "If RB thinks it, it's almost certainly wrong" heuristic is continuing to pay dividends, so I'll be spending the coming days going through that list to see how right or wrong the individual items are.

    What should be the cutoff for a passing grade? 50%? 60%? 70%?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #288
    LOL, Randblade is trying to rewrite history once again.

    We weren't under lock down until after the 23rd, because that was when we were required to stay inside except for essential travel and once per day to exercise and so on. That is what a lockdown is. It's not telling people to 'stay inside maybe', 'work from home if possible' or asking people to 'avoid' pubs, or mandating that only some businesses close (which they didn't do until the 20th). It's not an 'advicedown'.

    Matt Hancock is a liar.
    Greater than the odds, higher than the stakes
    One shot to change the course, with no room for mistakes
    Bound with stronger will, in the hands of time
    So where's the pawn that turns the tide and keeps the game alive?

  19. #289
    I haven't been keeping up with this thread in the past few weeks, have we done the bit where Boris Johnson said 'no one knew' about asymptotic transmission, Trump style, in order to excuse his disgraceful comments about care homes yet?
    Greater than the odds, higher than the stakes
    One shot to change the course, with no room for mistakes
    Bound with stronger will, in the hands of time
    So where's the pawn that turns the tide and keeps the game alive?

  20. #290
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes lockdown was finalised on 23rd March but it started to be implemented on 16th exactly like I said.

    Do you honestly think that saying to stop all non-essential travel, closing all schools in the country, closing all bars, pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc in the country is not a part of lockdown? Do you honestly think that was pre-lockdown?

    Lockdown was completed on the 24th but it had begun before then.
    Advise is not a lockdown. Advise is advise.

    You're right that they did something, which was asking the people if they pretty please would stay at home. Lockdown is when the government took actual measures rather than giving a speech asking people to stay at home. I was also working from home already before the lockdown here started, but that doesn't magically make the lockdown start earlier. I'm even hesitant to call what we had a lockdown, since we were always allowed to leave the house.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  21. #291
    Is ordering all schools, bars, restaurants, cinemas etc in the country to close taking an "actual measure rather than giving a speech"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #292
    1.
    #TheWeekInTory is a misnomer: this just covers the last 5 days

    1. Matt Hancock told Parliament lockdown started on 16th March, the day SAGE told them to, so all those unnecessary deaths didn’t happen

    2. But lockdown started on 24th March, and all those unnecessary deaths did
    Accurate. Hancock said lockdown started on 16th March, when SAGE recommended it, rather than on 24th March. Lockdown started on 24th March; on the 16th, govt. advised people to adhere to social distancing recommendations, but did not in fact impose a lockdown. If that is to be interpreted as a lockdown, then Sweden has been under lockdown for months. Plainly absurd. Point to Russ the tweeter.

    2.
    The govt announced a “New Deal” for infrastructure, with £600bn of new money
    Turns out, only 0.8% of that is new money
    The £34bn “new money” for the NHS was actually announced in 2018
    The govt then announced £3bn of additional funding for a possible second wave
    These claims are a bit trickier. The part about the "new deal" for infrastructure seems to be a reference to Johnson's misleading remarks to Parliament in response to criticism of the "new deal" and how it had been represented to the public. Afaict, the vast majority of that spending had already been pledged—separately—in campaign manifesto and budget; what's really "new" is that some of that money will be spent sooner than they had initially planned (about £100 million—not billion—of that appears to be newly pledged money), ie. an acceleration of spending rather than a substantial addition of funds. Important context is that those hundreds of billions would have needed to be spent anyway—previous govts had been neglecting pressing infrastructure needs for a long time, and further neglect would've been untenable. The 0.8% figure seems to be in reference to the roughly £5bn worth of accelerated spending: https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...nment-new-deal. Consequently, it might not, strictly speaking, be new money.

    The £34bn—over 5 years—to the chronically underfunded NHS was pledged in 2018, and amounts to £20bn when adjusted for inflation. This is certainly much less than the NHS has repeatedly said it needs. The additional £3bn might put funding just under what the NHS needs for this year. Rating this one as true-ish—true because Johnson's misleading remarks indicated far, far higher new spending in the new package than is actually the case, and "ish" because the 0.8% figure appears to be incorrect, and because the level and adequacy—in terms of £—of the real spending is difficult to determine. Point to Russ.

    3. Mandatory face coverings:

    Matt Hancock said wearing a mask is mandatory
    Downing St said wearing a mask ISN'T mandatory
    So Gavin Williamson cleared it all up by saying they're both right
    This is in reference to the mixed messaging re. face coverings being mandatory in shops and the like starting 24th July. Hancock was asked about whether they'd be mandatory in eg. Pret—because it's a shop, but it does sell coffee and sandwiches—and he said yes, because it's a shop (with the exception of places that have table service, if you eat there). Hours later, a spokesperson for Downing Street said no, because Pret is not a shop: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...usion-12029134

    After this, Gavin Williamson—cabinet RB—said... this:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  23. #293
    Most of the serious ones there you've not awarded a point to and most of those you have awarded a point to are either meaningless, out of context or a matter of interpretation.

    There are two there that are really serious that I will address.

    #7 - This is disgusting, the MP in question should definitely be investigated and probably have the whip suspended (be expelled from the party). I 100% condemn that unequivocally. (See Steely how its done)

    #12 - You call this corrupt, I say you must be having a laugh! The definition is so wide and vague as to be meaningless!

    Lets look at the claim. 60 of 61 English towns chosen were either "Tory seats" or "Tory targets" . . . yes that is true. But what does that mean? Is it unusual or unexpected? Well lets have a look shall we. The Tories won 65% of all seats in England but where are their seats and targets distributed? Where was the campaign distributed? Where are the seats that were neither Tory seats nor Tory targets?

    Virtually every town in England was either a Tory seat or a Tory target!

    The seats the Tories neither won nor targeted were confined pretty much to the cities. So to say that virtually every town chosen was a Tory target or Tory seat is meaningless since nearly every town in the country was a Tory target or Tory seat in the first place! That's about as meaningful as saying that every town chosen had a Tory candidate when the Tories stand in every constituency (bar the Speakers). In 2019 the Tories weren't writing off any towns. I'd be curious if you could without Googling name even a single town that was neither a Tory seat nor a Tory target?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #294
    Here you go Aimless, to help you so you don't need to Google it, here's a map of the 2019 election results. That should help narrow it down. Identify please the excluded towns that the Tories weren't targeting or didn't hold?



    I'll give you another hint, the Tories colour on that map is blue and even if a constituency isn't blue doesn't mean it wasn't a target it just means they didn't win it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #295
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Is ordering all schools, bars, restaurants, cinemas etc in the country to close taking an "actual measure rather than giving a speech"?
    Yes, it is, while I wouldn't call it a lockdown (which is why I said I'm hesitant to call the Dutch measures a lockdown), but that's semantics.

    I didn't check the dates but according to you these actions didn't happen on the 16th of March though.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  26. #296
    It happened on the 20th of March. Hancock lied whichever way you slice it.
    Greater than the odds, higher than the stakes
    One shot to change the course, with no room for mistakes
    Bound with stronger will, in the hands of time
    So where's the pawn that turns the tide and keeps the game alive?

  27. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Yes, it is, while I wouldn't call it a lockdown (which is why I said I'm hesitant to call the Dutch measures a lockdown), but that's semantics.

    I didn't check the dates but according to you these actions didn't happen on the 16th of March though.
    Fair enough, saying its semantics I can respect and agree with.

    As I said it rolled over the week.

    16th was telling people they should stay at home, avoid all unnecessary travel, avoid public places like restaurants etc, work from home etc
    18th was ordering schools to close (on the 20th)
    20th was ordering all restaurants, pubs, bars, cinemas etc etc to close tonight.

    Both the 18th and 20th were an order not a request.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #298
    RB you irredeemable fuckwit, how many times are we going to have to have this conversation about you needing to read before responding?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  29. #299
    What did I not read?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #300
    Twat Hancock
    Greater than the odds, higher than the stakes
    One shot to change the course, with no room for mistakes
    Bound with stronger will, in the hands of time
    So where's the pawn that turns the tide and keeps the game alive?

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