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Thread: This week on The Imperial Presidency: break the law for me and I'll pardon you

  1. #31
    Nope, presidents have an unlimited power to pardon (for federal crimes).
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The Law & Order president has pardoned an extremely weird traitor and national security threat, no doubt in an attempt to cover his own ass. I wonder whether a judge can rule the pardon to be illegal.

    No. If a President uses their pardon power irrresponsibly (for instance, as a means of obstructing justice by protecting people from perjury charges/convictions) the Constitutional remedy is impeachment. Questionable/objectionable lame-duck pardons have become something of a staple of outgoing Presidencies.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  3. #33
    I also don't think this is an objectional pardon. I'm sure there may yet be one, but the Flynn obsession has gone overboard and pardoning was almost definitely the right action in my book. Prosecutors overstep, after all.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I also don't think this is an objectional pardon. I'm sure there may yet be one, but the Flynn obsession has gone overboard and pardoning was almost definitely the right action in my book. Prosecutors overstep, after all.
    Is there someone else who thinks this isn't objectionable? Trump has unfettered power to do so, and this action is not very unusual. But I'd definitely say it's objectionable.

    In fact, it would have been nice if Trump had decided to break this norm like all the other ones he has ignored.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I also don't think this is an objectional pardon. I'm sure there may yet be one, but the Flynn obsession has gone overboard and pardoning was almost definitely the right action in my book. Prosecutors overstep, after all.
    Prosecutors didn't overstep; Flynn was given a very pleasant out instead of being held fully accountable for the things he had done and planned to do.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #36
    Is Dread still pretending to not be a Trumpist while defending Trump at every turn?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #37
    Dread has always been an anti-anti caricature though
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    Is there someone else who thinks this isn't objectionable? Trump has unfettered power to do so, and this action is not very unusual. But I'd definitely say it's objectionable.

    In fact, it would have been nice if Trump had decided to break this norm like all the other ones he has ignored.
    Big-picture I wouldn't mind that either. But I genuinely don't think Flynn merited prosecution. It was a perjury trap wrapped in an unused law that may be unconstitutional.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Prosecutors didn't overstep; Flynn was given a very pleasant out instead of being held fully accountable for the things he had done and planned to do.
    You mean the part where they threatened to jail his son if he didn't plead guilty to forgetting a phone call? Why don't you tell me what you think happened here.

  9. #39
    I feel like you could at least do the bare minimum and, like, read a Wikipedia article or something about the investigation before saying something so silly. If you like, I can wait for you to do that.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  10. #40
    You have to understand Dread, Aimless actually still believes in the absurd Russian collusion hoax.

  11. #41
    I bet he also believes in the Biden won the election hoax.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    You have to understand Dread, Aimless actually still believes in the absurd Russian collusion hoax.
    Are you referring to the Russia investigation that saw a ton of people indicted, including people very close to the president and his campaign, and which showed that the president engaged in conduct that would've seen any other person charged with obstruction of justice? Is that the investigation you're talking about? Thank you for reminding us that you support a president who's actually a criminal
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #43
    What you're forgetting is that from Lewk's perspective, the justice system is only allowed to go after minorities. Going after Flynn, Gates, etc. is clearly illegitimate for that reason if nothing else.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #44
    Honestly, I just don't think they've read anything from or about the report.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Are you referring to the Russia investigation that saw a ton of people indicted, including people very close to the president and his campaign, and which showed that the president engaged in conduct that would've seen any other person charged with obstruction of justice? Is that the investigation you're talking about? Thank you for reminding us that you support a president who's actually a criminal
    You have to understand Aimless, Lewk thinks reality has a liberal bias and can therefor be put into the #fakenews category, along with everything else that he perceives to have a liberal bias. Like science.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  16. #46
    I agree with all of you, but I think Dread's issue is more that he does not know—or care to know—what the investigation learned about what Flynn and his son actually did, and why he was offered the deal. If I commit serious crimes and then lie about them repeatedly, and then plead guilty to lying about them—and agree to assist in the investigation of bigger fish—in the hopes of avoiding more severe punishment for the more serious crimes, then it'd be kinda dumb for someone to pretend that lying was the only thing I did wrong. If lying to the FBI is the only crime, you're not getting a plea bargain—as in, it wouldn't be much of a bargain. In this case, we actually have some idea of how far Flynn—and his son—had gone, so it's even more stupid to act as if the only thing he did wrong was lying to the FBI—or, in Dread's case, act as if he just forgot a phone-call.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #47
    You've been waiting for the truth to come find you
    Are you speaking for yourself or your pain? Do you sleep in the silence to wane the passing shame?
    You are more than what your history made you, let the ghosts of our fathers pass on.
    There's a new dawn to come when the past mistakes are gone

  18. #48
    He just stole my joke about Trump pardoning the wrong turkey
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #49
    My guess is Dread is spending a lot of time around anti-anti-Trumpists (people who know it's socially unacceptable to like Trump, so they hide behind whataboutism and go after Trump's opponents) and is simply parroting the arguments he hears from those people.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    What you're forgetting is that from Lewk's perspective, the justice system is only allowed to go after minorities. Going after Flynn, Gates, etc. is clearly illegitimate for that reason if nothing else.
    Didn't know Hunter Biden was a minority.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I also don't think this is an objectional pardon. I'm sure there may yet be one, but the Flynn obsession has gone overboard and pardoning was almost definitely the right action in my book. Prosecutors overstep, after all.

    They do overstep. They didn't overstep here. That the brouhaha has persisted this long is entirely due to to Trump getting Barr to end-run the law and overrule the the clearly reasonable prosecutorial actions while dancing on the inside of the "obstruction of justice" line. And now, in the lame-duck period, open obstruction is no longer a barrier.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Didn't know Hunter Biden was a minority.
    I forgot political enemies. Good catch.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #53
    Seeing Evangelical dudes lose their shit over someone being loved by their dad is honestly a little tragicomic.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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