British govt: papers please

[RandBlade]

I didn't say every single one was a rapist and extremely violent criminal. I said they were all criminals like rapists etc who've been subject to long sentences and that's true. I do have evidence for that, the minimum jail term to be deported (as set by this law passed by the last Labour government) is 12 months. Anyone who is not convicted of a crime, or is convicted but got community service or a short sentence below 12 months is not deported. Also considering this law has been the same since the last Labour government that passed it I'm curious whether you complained about it at the time?

I don't care about race. I am happy to get serious criminals who are not citizens out of the country. I think its offensive and bigotted of you to suggest "darkies" are criminals, that's not true. In my opinion the vast, vast, vast majority of all races are good law abiding people and I'd like to see any evidence you have to the contrary.

[Aimless]

This is the context for the current travesty that you, "Good German" that you are, are applauding thoughtlessly:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...iminal-offence

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8501076.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ed-sajid-javid

Wrongfully deported after a lifetime in Britain—enduring constant racist abuse but still building lives and establishing bonds of family and friendship—to die in a foreign country, far from your loved ones, stripped of all dignity. Because pathetic English Lewkowskis enjoy fapping to the suffering of brown people. That's what you want more of, as you slowly age into this new stage of decrepitude.

[RandBlade]

Idiot. I opposed vehemently the Windrush deportations. Just go back to Page 1 of this thread.

This is not the same thing.

[Aimless]

Idiot. I opposed vehemently the Windrush deportations. Just go back to Page 1 of this thread.

This is not the same thing.

I recommend you read my post and the linked articles before replying. You say you "opposed" the Windrush deportations, but clearly you are not interested in learning from that mistake—much like your govt, that had to be forced to acknowledge that the wrongful deportations of Windrush individuals with modest criminal records was also wrong. Your failure to read is matched only by your ongoing moral failures.

[RandBlade]

I am interested in learning from the mistake, but that doesn't apply here. Criminals who have been sentenced to long sentences and exhausted their appeals are not the same as Windrush.

[Aimless]

You are completely disinterested in learning from the Windrush scandal. The draft report strongly recommends ending these deportations, except possibly for the most severe offenses. One of the men being deported is a 23-y-o who's lived in the UK since he was 5, convicted of drug crime at age 17 after being groomed by a criminal gang, and served his sentence. To deport him six years later, for a nonviolent crime, is grossly disproportionate.

[RandBlade]

These are serious criminals who are being deported. The 17 year old is not being deported which was already determined previously but his case is still being used in arguments because despite being total bullshit its easier to argue that than the rapists, killers and class A drug dealers that make up the 17 who were deported in reality.

Instead of throwing stones, let me ask you a question. Is it acceptable to deport a convicted rapist who is not a citizen of your country and is a citizen of another?

[gogobongopop]

Anyone know why we didn't deport Rolf Harris?

[RandBlade]

He's got British citizenship so can't be deported.

[gogobongopop]

Ah, it's all over my Twitter feed and I couldn't work it out. So it's definite that none of the people we're deporting now are British citizens?

I'm quite ignorant about this, but one thing I don't understand is why they are being deported. They've all served their time and they could have been deported by the judge who sentenced them in the first place.

Does this now mean that anyone who isn't a British citizen who commits a crime will be a) sentenced by a judge and then b.) when they've served their sentenced will at some point in the future be deported?

[RandBlade]

The law doesn't permit us to deport British citizens.

We can strip British citizens of their citizenship if they are a deemed a danger to the country and it doesn't leave them stateless. As Rolf Harris is dual nationality Australian and British that could theoretically be possible I believe, but I don't know if we can do that while he's in the country (as opposed to eg the "Jihadi Bride" who left the country to go join ISIS) and I don't know if his crimes can amount to a threat to national security.

No anyone not a citizen who commits a crime won't automatically be deported and as far as I'm aware deportation isn't a matter for the judge at trial. They must be sentence to a minimum of a 12 month sentence by the judge to be eligible to deportation proceedings and those begin after that sentence. Deportation proceedings are separate from the trial for the original crime that got the 12+ month sentence.

[gogobongopop]

So exactly why are these guys being deported? Wouldn't it make sense just to automatically deport any non British citizen at first strike?

Why sentence them, make them serve that sentence and then deport at an arbitrary time later?

I guess I'm questioning the rationale for this decision and consistency of approach.

[Aimless]

These are serious criminals who are being deported.

Just because someone is a "serious criminal" doesn't mean that deportation - on top of the time they've already served - is a proportionate punishment. The govt. refuses to reveal how many of these men were convicted of crimes such as murder, rape, GBH etc vs. eg. possession with intent to distribute - because the govt. knows that these disparate categories of crime merit different kinds of punishment.

The 17 year old is not being deported which was already determined previously but his case is still being used in arguments because despite being total bullshit its easier to argue that than the rapists, killers and class A drug dealers that make up the 17 who were deported in reality.

You know very well that the primary reason why most of the men who were scheduled to be deported have not yet been shipped off to Jamaica is because of a last minute court order - vehemently opposed by the govt. - staying the deportation of detainees who could not reasonably have been expected to have gotten adequate legal assistance - not because the govt. saw the error of its ways. Similarly, the only reason Thompson's planned deportation has been stayed is because of a last-minute court order - the govt. had every intention of going through with the deportation prior to that order, and would have succeeded, had he not had access to legal assistance. He remains in detention, as of today, in a system we know to be extremely harmful for detainees' mental and physical health.

Instead of throwing stones, let me ask you a question. Is it acceptable to deport a convicted rapist who is not a citizen of your country and is a citizen of another?

If that convicted rapist is an adult who came to my country as a 5-y-o boy, and grew up here, and had no memory of - nor connections in - the country of his birth, my answer would be a firm no. That rapist is my country's responsibility; we have ostensibly accepted that responsibility for two decades. This holds even more strongly for people who have received long sentences for non-violent crimes.

[RandBlade]

So exactly why are these guys being deported? Wouldn't it make sense just to automatically deport any non British citizen at first strike?

Why sentence them, make them serve that sentence and then deport at an arbitrary time later?

I guess I'm questioning the rationale for this decision and consistency of approach.

Automatic deportation is the law already. Under the Act passed by the Labour government in 2006 all foreign nationals sentenced to a prison sentence of 12 months or longer MUST be deported. However people retain the right to appeal due to concerns about human rights etc e.g. If facing torture. But the law makes deporting offenders the default.

People aren't deported the day they're released and some abscond while out but deportation is the expectation of the law for all foreign criminals. That is the law.

[gogobongopop]

The system seems odd. One chap served half of his 15 month sentence in 2015. He's now being deported five years later.

[RandBlade]

Yes I agree, I don't know the details why. Post-Windrush scandal a lot of deportations got delayed. The judicial process and appeals etc can take some time too.