Can American conservatism survive intact & unadulterated?

[Aimless]

Bottom line is that idiots didn't listen to real lifelong conservative intellectuals and commentators who have clearly articulated many compelling reasons for why a SCOTUS judge and a short-lived tax cut were not worth sacrificing conservative ideals, norms and policies on the altar of MAGAism. Bottom line is, the people falling into line behind Trump don't give a shit about conservatism, except for that version that is about giving themselves special treatment and punishing their enemies. Bottom line is, you and your idiot kin have embraced the dumbest kind of conspiratorial bullshit and an ideology that totally disregards laws, ethics and core norms of good governance based on a desire to satisfy your perverse urges even if it comes at the expense of your nation. It absolutely is all or nothing, and Trump is a wholesale repudiation of American conservatism.

"The corruption of the FBI". You pathetic little pizzagater.

[Lewkowski]

Bottom line is that idiots didn't listen to real lifelong conservative intellectuals and commentators who have clearly articulated many compelling reasons for why a SCOTUS judge and a short-lived tax cut were not worth sacrificing conservative ideals, norms and policies on the altar of MAGAism. Bottom line is, the people falling into line behind Trump don't give a shit about conservatism, except for that version that is about giving themselves special treatment and punishing their enemies. Bottom line is, you and your idiot kin have embraced the dumbest kind of conspiratorial bullshit and an ideology that totally disregards laws, ethics and core norms of good governance based on a desire to satisfy your perverse urges even if it comes at the expense of your nation. It absolutely is all or nothing, and Trump is a wholesale repudiation of American conservatism.

"The corruption of the FBI". You pathetic little pizzagater.

Mcabe and Comey gave directly conflicting testimony. Also it isn't the first time the FBI has done shady shit.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-1...candal/8533382

[Steely Glint]

US conservatives are so fixated on this idea of tyranny coming from 'big government' - people who think they know what's best for everyone and want to control them - that they have no idea where most dictatorships, historically and currently, actually come from, which is to say basic criminality and corruption, and they can't see the warning signs.

[Khendraja'aro]

US conservatives are so fixated on this idea of tyranny coming from 'big government' - people who think they know what's best for everyone and want to control them - that they have no idea where most dictatorships, historically and currently, actually come from, which is to say basic criminality and corruption, and they can't see the warning signs.

It feels funny to quote something from Star Wars but, seriously, it fits very well:

"So this is how liberty dies ... with thundering applause."

[Aimless]

Currently US conservatives are fixated on pizzeria child porn rings, conspiracies about the Deep State and Soros, Mexican gangs, creeping Sharia and the many benefits of abusing children of asylum seekers by tearing them away from their parents. The opposition to a tyrannical big govt is or was one of several components of American conservatism. These days it's increasingly beginning to resemble the version of conservatism described by someone as follows:

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition: there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Plus infinite mulligans for scandals, lies, shady business, violation of ethical norms and norms of good governance, and of course crimes.

[Aimless]

Sitting US congressman retweets British Neo-Nazi:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...mpression=true

White supremacist hobbyist Corey Stewart wins GOP nomination.

[RandBlade]

I've never heard of Mark Collett and I'm British. Of course I'm not a neo-Nazi so I don't travel in their circles but he's not Tommy Robinson.

[Aimless]

No, Tommy Robinson is for mainstream defenders of free speech.

[RandBlade]

Tommy Robinson is a fascist criminal.

[Aimless]

Tommy Robinson is a fascist criminal.

He is currently a very popular defender of free speech that the PC cultural Marxist establishment is trying to silence because he has the courage to speak the truth about Muslims even though it's unpopular.

[RandBlade]

Only among fascist ignoramuses. Maybe that's the circle you travel in, once again you do seem to have a Lewk-like hard on for picking odd balls and concentrating on them as if they're representative like he does with fake rape victims.

[Aimless]

No, you are incorrect. Tommy Robinson was once an unknown nazi hobbyist, but lately many others have become enamored with him and especially what they believe he represents, which is the fight against an oppressive PC state eager to surrender traditional Western society to the hordes of invading Muslim economic migrants and silence political dissidents who speak up for traditional values. Nazis wear suits and have gained a veneer of respectability because more and more people have become incapable of recognizing these scum for what they are or have convinced themselves that what they appear to stand for isn't all that bad, that they're being misrepresented by shrill, hysterical Muslim-hugging feminazi cultural Marxist elites. Others have persuaded themselves that people like Robinson represent the lesser evil. Why you find this difficult to believe in a world where people like Farage and Trump dominate the media and enjoy considerable popular support is beyond me, but just because you like to keep your head buried in the sand doesn't mean that support for fascists isn't on the rise in large parts of the western world. What, do you believe there are no ignoramuses in the West? That you are somehow immune to this plague?

Thousands of people marched on the streets in support of this scumbag, and tens of thousands more have expressed their support on social media. For every vocal supporter, there is likely to be at least one quiet one. The crimes he has committed are easy to ignore or forgive, for these authoritarians, who have found it in them to forgive Trump and eg. the criminals he's pardoned.

[RandBlade]

He's the former Co-Founder, Spokesman and Leader of the English Defence League.

Calling him "once unknown" is like calling Le Pen "once unknown".

Farage doesn't dominate the media, he's a soon-to-be-made-unemployed oddball that has failed on 8 occasions to be elected to Westminster. The only reason he got any prominence is because of the EU and its insistence on using the perverted Proportional Representation system to boost the extremists representation. Thankfully we're leaving that disaster and his entire party behind.

[Aimless]

American hero Steve King:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ms-pork-664949

[Aimless]

Seeing clips from the farcical hearing of Wray and Rosenstein, I was struck by two things:

1. How cartoonishly stupid the Hannity-channeling grandstanding Republicans on the committee are. I mean it's just unbelievable. It's even worse than Jordan's and Gowdy's provocatively slappable faces.

2. The apparent strength of Wray's and Rosenstein's resolve to see this through no matter what shit gets thrown their way by these fucking circus clowns.

[Lewkowski]

Seeing clips from the farcical hearing of Wray and Rosenstein, I was struck by two things:

1. How cartoonishly stupid the Hannity-channeling grandstanding Republicans on the committee are. I mean it's just unbelievable. It's even worse than Jordan's and Gowdy's provocatively slappable faces.

2. The apparent strength of Wray's and Rosenstein's resolve to see this through no matter what shit gets thrown their way by these fucking circus clowns.

To be honest they are barking up the wrong tree with Rosenstein. Unless he's a complete liar (and I don't think he is) he seems to be doing exactly what he feel is the ethical and appropriate thing to do. I do think the Gowdy wanting a proper end to the investigation is appropriate (justice delayed is justice denied quote was a nice touch). There exists two possible scenarios:

1. Trump colluded with Russians. This should then lead to articles of Impeachment. Wouldn't you want a President OUT as soon as possible if he did this sort of thing?

2. Trump didn't collude with the Russians. In this case you would want this waste of tax payers money to be ended as soon as possible.

In either scenario you want the investigation to be finished rapidly. Only if you think there was no collusion and want to simply damage Trump would you want it to drag its feet.

[Aimless]

I do think the Gowdy wanting a proper end to the investigation is appropriate (justice delayed is justice denied quote was a nice touch). There exists two possible scenarios:

1. Trump colluded with Russians. This should then lead to articles of Impeachment. Wouldn't you want a President OUT as soon as possible if he did this sort of thing?

2. Trump didn't collude with the Russians. In this case you would want this waste of tax payers money to be ended as soon as possible.

In either scenario you want the investigation to be finished rapidly. Only if you think there was no collusion and want to simply damage Trump would you want it to drag its feet.

It is irrelevant what partisans on either side want. What matters is what is necessary for the investigation to be conducted in accordance with the law and best practice. Regardless of what the truth is, the investigation's conclusions about the truth must be based on the best possible evidence. Your statement--and Gowdy's--clearly show that you believe justice should be subservient to partisan considerations. These investigations two to three years on average and this particular investigation is clearly more complex than most, given the number of people involved and indicted. To imply that it is taking an inordinately long time and shout at those in charge of it signals either extraordinary stupidity or a particularly malignant flavour of partisanship.

The gag-inducing sophomoric grandstanding was indeed a nice touch, but only because it exposed in a mere second just what a fucking hypocrite that clown is. Everyone who isn't a mark knows a bullshitter on sight, and everyone in that room with half a brain realized at that moment that Mr. Benghazi really is just as full of shit as it appears.

[Lewkowski]

It is irrelevant what partisans on either side want. What matters is what is necessary for the investigation to be conducted in accordance with the law and best practice. Regardless of what the truth is, the investigation's conclusions about the truth must be based on the best possible evidence. Your statement--and Gowdy's--clearly show that you believe justice should be subservient to partisan considerations. These investigations two to three years on average and this particular investigation is clearly more complex than most, given the number of people involved and indicted. To imply that it is taking an inordinately long time and shout at those in charge of it signals either extraordinary stupidity or a particularly malignant flavour of partisanship.

The gag-inducing sophomoric grandstanding was indeed a nice touch, but only because it exposed in a mere second just what a fucking hypocrite that clown is. Everyone who isn't a mark knows a bullshitter on sight, and everyone in that room with half a brain realized at that moment that Mr. Benghazi really is just as full of shit as it appears.

What exactly creates a delay? They have a team working to process information. Talk to everyone they want to talk with and get it done. Our entire system is slow as hell (not just this investigation) and its really nonsensical. In the private world when an employee has an arbitration dispute shit gets handled fast. I'm not going to pretend they have the same levels of complexity but you'd think that the idea that the leader of the free world is currently in power and *might* (doubt it) have broken the law and conspired with a foreign power would lead to someone to give it some gas? Like seriously "steal an election and in the last year of your term you might be in trouble!" is insane.

[LittleFuzzy]

What exactly creates a delay? They have a team working to process information. Talk to everyone they want to talk with and get it done. Our entire system is slow as hell (not just this investigation) and its really nonsensical. In the private world when an employee has an arbitration dispute shit gets handled fast.

That's because arbitration is designed to be fast and (frankly) incredibly one-sided. This is a criminal investigation and the balance of power between the investigators and the investigated is nothing like one-sided.

[Aimless]

What exactly creates a delay? They have a team working to process information. Talk to everyone they want to talk with and get it done. Our entire system is slow as hell (not just this investigation) and its really nonsensical. In the private world when an employee has an arbitration dispute shit gets handled fast. I'm not going to pretend they have the same levels of complexity but you'd think that the idea that the leader of the free world is currently in power and *might* (doubt it) have broken the law and conspired with a foreign power would lead to someone to give it some gas? Like seriously "steal an election and in the last year of your term you might be in trouble!" is insane.

Is there some reason why you don't understand the difference between the simple civil matters dealt with in arbitration on the private sector and a massively complex criminal investigation involving millions of pages of documentation, convoluted paper- & money trails, dozens of targets, dozens of witnesses etc?

In other news, American conservatism is beyond salvation:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ple/761841002/

[RandBlade]

Investigations take time. That's not dragging feet.

[Aimless]

Investigations take time. That's not dragging feet.

Time moves differently in Trumpland where Lewk has made his home.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-l...r-trump-2017-6



Those that produce indictments: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...nvestigations/

[Ominous Gamer]

I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation is going at the pace its going at because of how many people its snaring, not how difficult its. Experts are talking about NRA tax filings now. America could very well be looking at a real life Hail Hydra moment when this gets all wrapped up.


Wonder if Lewk knows where Benghazi would fall in Aimless' chart.

[Steely Glint]

Plus, the scope of the investigation is to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election, not just what part Trump had in it.

[GGT]

Trump made some horrible comments in Montana. He goes over the line, and lowers the bar so often, the 'new normal' has become pathetic.

I can't understand how or why 'conservatives' continue to support this man, when none of his policies are actually 'conservative'. It's as if the paranoid, conspiratorial, anti-globalist, anti-immigrant (and yes, white nationalist) wing of the GOP has taken over the traditional conservative debate about size and scope of government. Now it's not just healthy skepticism, or run-of-the mill anti-establishment, but deconstructing the administrative state and weird Deep State stuff.

It might be common when people vote against their own self-interests, but it's NOT common when both congress and senate fail to keep a president (or his cabinet) in check when they violate ethical norms, stoke mistrust in our Dept. of Justice and Intelligence agencies, damage relationships with foreign allies and trading partners, or threaten to leave international groups, all while cozying up to dictators. This is NOT normal! Not even by 'conservative' standards.

[Aimless]

Black people are a threat to all, GOP-endorsed white supremacist candidate believes:

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...g-black/220614

Anyone who defends the GOP today is full of shit.

[Steely Glint]

The GOP is now more racist that UKIP.

Seriously, saying that would get you tossed out of UKIP.

UKIP

[RandBlade]

UKIP are bad by the UK's standards but not that bad compared to most other nations. Most continental European nations have parties worse than UKIP and until recently I argued that first past the post was what stopped such extreme parties like the FN, AfD, Golden Dawn, Jobbik, FPO etc taking hold here.

The GOP have dismissed my argument on that subject completely.

[Aimless]

The GOP has made its choice:

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politic...ling-overblown

Not surprising, but still chilling.

[GGT]

The GOP used to be a party that believed in Rule of Law -- now they diss and dismiss the FBI, and all Intelligence Agencies.
They used to advocate for "Free Trade and Free Markets" -- now they're Trump Tariff anti-globalism protectionists.
They used to defend the 1st Amendment and a Free Press -- now the leader of their party is anti-press and calls them The Enemy of The People.
Even Reagan-era Republicans embraced immigration, as part of our liberal democratic values -- now they're xenophobic, anti-immigrant isolationists.
They used to fight against over-reach of Executive powers -- but now want a SCOTUS judge that treats presidential powers almost sacrosanct.
And they used to take National Defense, International Relations, and Diplomacy seriously -- until they let Trump's tantrums take over.