Will Catalonia go it alone?

[Loki]

Self determination of peoples is literally in Chapter 1 Article 1 of the Charter of the United Nations. Go cry me a river if you are upset that people oppressed by being denied that right are going to cause some other people's to seek their own fundamental rights to self determination.

Yes many believe that sovereignty trumps self determination. I don't. Sovereignty is meaningless without the consent of the governed. You claim repeatedly that the Catalan people aren't being oppressed but being denied their right to self determination IS oppressive in and of itself. So yes they are being oppressed.

I teach half a dozen classes relating to the UN and international law. Your interpretation is plain wrong. You don't get to pick and choose which part of the UN Charter to follow based on their order in the document. Sovereignty​ is the default principle, while the right to self-determination is extremely constrained. To obtain self-determination without consent from the country you're seceding from, you need to start with the decolonization committee in the UN General Assembly. Then you need their report to be voted on by the entire UN GA and sent to the Security Council. Only the Security Council can require self-determination, and it would have to be justified in terms of its contribution to international peace and security (though the SC makes that determination for itself). Since decolonization, no one even considers this option unless crimes against humanity are taking place.

As someone who doesn't take international law seriously, it's odd that you'd point to aspirational parts of the doctrine. To be meaningful, it must be codified in binding treaties and conventions. There must be some mechanism for punishing violators. While that is the case for sovereignty, by far the dominant doctrine in international law, there's little to none for self-determination for non-colonial countries. Even genocide-prevention has a weak role in international law relative to sovereignty.

So don't take us for idiots by pretending​ that your interpretation of the UN Charter is somehow on par with that of the actual UN, diplomats, and international jurists.

[RandBlade]

I teach half a dozen classes relating to the UN and international law. Your interpretation is plain wrong.

No it is not since I never claimed that self determination trumps sovereignty in international law. I just pointed it out it is part of it.

The fact that international law tends to emphasise the rights of nations to illiberally oppress their people more than liberally letting the people decide is just one more reason why the law is an ass.