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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #5311
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Please read posts you reply to before replying to them, in this case this part:



    It's obvious you did not read that, or you wouldn't have raised a stupid objection that barely addresses the least important part of the post you had purportedly read before replying. Allow me to reiterate:



    Let me explain why you're being stupid: Moody's has actually given a thorough account of their rationale for the UK's present (downgraded) rating—just as it has done in previous reports—and that account explicitly highlights Brexit-related failures and political-institutional dysfunction as the most important reasons. You first tried to blame the pandemic, and now you're trying to blame Gordon Brown—but all your frantic scrabbling for purchase is in vain, because the report considers other factors to be more important. The spin you're trying to peddle here—like a moron—is only interesting to someone who hasn't read the report. Eg. someone who goes by the alias RandBlade right here on this very forum.

    What you're showing here is a pattern of behavior characterized by laziness, sloppiness—and stupidity. Please just read things properly before responding to them. It would save me a lot of time and energy.
    I did read them properly just because you lie or twist things in your head to mean what you want them to mean does not make them mean what you want them to mean.

    In your own chosen quote they literally called what you're claiming to be "the most important" factor "the third factor". I quoted the first and second factors ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #5312
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    I can understand why someone would not like to be held accountable for his contributions to the worst example of national self-harm in this century.
    Congratulations America

  3. #5313
    Click to view the full version


    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  4. #5314
    What do you find funny about that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #5315
    He's laughing because it's not funny—it's a major burden and cost for merchants in other countries who might want to be able to sell small value goods to customers in the UK.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #5316
    You do realise even pre Brexit non-EU exporters into the EU have to charge VAT don't you? Or the customer is obliged to pay it? So yes exporters into the UK are going to be obliged to pay it just the same. And online marketplaces like Amazon have systems to process that as mentioned in the second bullet point.

    Foreign exporters don't get to avoid VAT and have a competitive advantage over domestic businesses.

    HMRC is removing the £15 exemption as part of updating its rules but the general principle is consistent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #5317
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You do realise even pre Brexit non-EU exporters into the EU have to charge VAT don't you? Or the customer is obliged to pay it? So yes exporters into the UK are going to be obliged to pay it just the same.

    Foreign exporters don't get to avoid VAT and have a competitive advantage over domestic businesses.

    HMRC is removing the £15 exemption as part of updating its rules but the general principle is consistent.
    Yes, thank you for acknowledging that many merchants and their customers will have one additional costly layer of red tape to deal with. Previously, merchants did not necessarily have to charge or process VAT themselves—the customer could pay it themselves, upon/prior to receipt. And, of course, millions of consignments were exempt.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #5318
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Yes, thank you for acknowledging that many merchants and their customers will have one additional costly layer of red tape to deal with. Previously, merchants did not necessarily have to charge or process VAT themselves—the customer could pay it themselves, upon/prior to receipt. And, of course, millions of consignments were exempt.
    Still not seeing the laughing matter. If you are trading to consumers in the UK then VAT is due.

    These reforms are part of a package of reforms to ensure the likes of Amazon pay their fair share of taxes. I'm not seeing why a foreign retailer who trades in the UK using Amazon should be exempt from taxes that retailers here are obliged to pay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #5319
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    I hope there won't be a deal.
    Congratulations America

  10. #5320
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I hope there won't be a deal.
    You're changing your tune.

    I thought you were claiming you were going to write the deal we would simply sign it? Funny that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #5321
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You're changing your tune.

    I thought you were claiming you were going to write the deal we would simply sign it? Funny that.
    I feel that we're too soft on you.
    Congratulations America

  12. #5322
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Still not seeing the laughing matter. If you are trading to consumers in the UK then VAT is due.

    These reforms are part of a package of reforms to ensure the likes of Amazon pay their fair share of taxes. I'm not seeing why a foreign retailer who trades in the UK using Amazon should be exempt from taxes that retailers here are obliged to pay?
    It's not a laughing matter, it's a serious matter. The issue is not that VAT is due, it is that the new rules will place an additional, costly and cumbersome compliance burden on many merchants—and cause cash flow issues for others. The change will be disproportionately harmful to small businesses—eg. in Ireland and NI. It is a little tragicomic that the finalized legislation is will be announced so close to the date when it will begin to apply.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #5323
    It is not tragicomic, these changes were announced ages ago they aren't just being announced now.

    As for the compliance burden it is negligible. If a company is exporting to businesses they're obliged to record the businesses VAT Registration Number and that's it. Hardly burdensome. If they're operating via an OMP the OMP acts to collect the revenue, again hardly burdensome. If they're retailing directly to consumers they need to pay their taxes but so does every business anywhere in the globe. Businesses pay tax, it isn't rocket science.

    I'd like to see you cite a single source suggesting this is an issue for NI businesses since NI businesses are already obliged to charge VAT anyway and are dealt with separately these changes aren't for NI.

    'Businesses are obligated to pay taxes' is a bear shits in the woods kind of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #5324
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    Seems that in little over two months British passports will no longer function at EU automated immigration gates.
    Congratulations America

  15. #5325
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It is not tragicomic, these changes were announced ages ago they aren't just being announced now.

    As for the compliance burden it is negligible. If a company is exporting to businesses they're obliged to record the businesses VAT Registration Number and that's it. Hardly burdensome. If they're operating via an OMP the OMP acts to collect the revenue, again hardly burdensome. If they're retailing directly to consumers they need to pay their taxes but so does every business anywhere in the globe. Businesses pay tax, it isn't rocket science.

    I'd like to see you cite a single source suggesting this is an issue for NI businesses since NI businesses are already obliged to charge VAT anyway and are dealt with separately these changes aren't for NI.

    'Businesses are obligated to pay taxes' is a bear shits in the woods kind of story.
    It's genuinely weird how you keep trying to refute claims nobody has made. There's nothing wrong with requiring a business to pay taxes—although it sucks to make them do it in a way that increases administrative overhead—but there is something very wrong about putting a business in a position where it does not know exactly what it must do to be in compliance with tax laws that will come into force in 2 months. This is especially problematic for businesses involved in trade between RoI and NI, who not only have to parse the confusing new rules but also try to determine how—and if—they should be implemented, depending on whether or not there's a deal.

    Meanwhile, the dumbest govt in the west continues to embarrass itself in increasingly farcical ways:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  16. #5326
    You're making things up, businesses have been told what to do. Prepare to operate as if we are trading on WTO terms as the baseline from January next year - if there is a deal then that will make things easier not harder but take nothing for granted about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #5327
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    And it's so wonderful for business if you have to prepare for two entirely different futures. You can really build a profitable business on that basis. So Nissan should halve its production of cars before the end of the year and miss out on the chance that they actually may be able to compete on the EU market with the cars they could have produced?
    Congratulations America

  18. #5328
    Changes happen, businesses cope with that all the time. Get over it already.

    A change of government had Corbyn won the election last year would have been a bigger change for businesses than Brexit ever would - doesn't mean that we abolish elections.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #5329
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Changes happen, businesses cope with that all the time. Get over it already.

    A change of government had Corbyn won the election last year would have been a bigger change for businesses than Brexit ever would - doesn't mean that we abolish elections.
    But as a former business owner yourself, I imagine you would agree that certainty, (or at least some measure of confidence) in what the rules are and will be is enormously helpful when planning your operations.

  20. #5330
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    But as a former business owner yourself, I imagine you would agree that certainty, (or at least some measure of confidence) in what the rules are and will be is enormously helpful when planning your operations.
    Oh absolutely of course.

    There is no certainty at the minute because negotiations are ongoing. C'est la vie. Sooner there is certainty the better which is why I oppose extending transition beyond December as it would just drag on the uncertainty and prevent compromise being made.

    A transition from the transition to an agreed end point after the compromises are made could be a very good idea though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #5331
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Oh absolutely of course.

    There is no certainty at the minute because negotiations are ongoing. C'est la vie. Sooner there is certainty the better which is why I oppose extending transition beyond December as it would just drag on the uncertainty and prevent compromise being made.

    A transition from the transition to an agreed end point after the compromises are made could be a very good idea though.
    And still the Brexitard doesn't understand that for many businesses one of the scenarios is that their business no longer is viable after the end of the year. No matter how well they are doing today.
    Congratulations America

  22. #5332
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    And still the Brexitard doesn't understand that for many businesses one of the scenarios is that their business no longer is viable after the end of the year. No matter how well they are doing today.
    Bovine manure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #5333
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Bovine manure.
    A no deal means that a british fisher can pretty much forget about selling his catch at a price that makes it worth while to continue fishing. And that's only one example. You mean to tell these people to simply find a different job now that they should prepare for a no deal situation?
    Congratulations America

  24. #5334
    No that's scaremongering bullshit. People adapt.

    That fisherman can sell to a different market or can sell frozen or can sell domestically or ... Etc

    People who want to earn a living adapt better than people like you give them credit for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #5335
    'sorry the combination of our ignorant and selfish political project and our own callous indifference in attempting to implement it wrecked your livelihood, I'm sure you'll adapt to these circumstances we made in some vague way'

    fuck tories
    Who can now look back with a sense of pride?

  26. #5336
    People's livelihoods won't be wrecked by Brexit though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #5337
    fuck off, tory
    Who can now look back with a sense of pride?

  28. #5338
    Stop throwing toys out of your pram.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #5339
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    People's livelihoods won't be wrecked by Brexit though.
    WTF.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  30. #5340
    Only a number of weeks now until Project Fear gets revealed to be bollocks Khen.

    COVID will do far more disruption than Brexit ever could.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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