Don't ask don't tell

[Lebanese Dragon]

So? Again, he didn't really lead on this. By all appearances, he was a follower.

I think you're being overly harsh, and not fair in judgement. He gave speeches before and during presidency the promise and support of repealing the bill. You're not going to see of any president, them drafting every bill that's being passed, or them charioting every charge. He spoke out about it stirring his base and republicans to pass it, he wanted it to get passed, and now that the congressional proceeding have played out, he's signing it. I think what you wanted is for him to be making meetings with the republicans offering them compromises like pass this, and we'll do this and this for you, and drafting the bill himself. You can't do that for every bill he has so much "political capital" he has to use, and it got passed before they lost majority, thankfully.

[']['ear]

Well, either he copped out or he wisely dodged unnecessary political risk. You can spin it either way, and people will do so based on what they already think of him.

The one thing we can be sure of is that this wouldn't have happened with the GOP in power, or even with a close minority. Anybody dispute that?

[Hazir]

The GOP could have stopped this from happening. Facts already disagree with you.

[Omega]

The GOP could have stopped this from happening. Facts already disagree with you.

The Texas GOP wants corporal punishment reinstated. Can we used "GOP" as a synonym for "autistic prick"?

[Lebanese Dragon]

The GOP could have stopped this from happening. Facts already disagree with you.

If they were all sheep and went party line with the goal of hurting America to make a democratic presidency look bad. How sad is that. I do appreciate the GOP candidates that did vote for repeal they did the right thing, and they resisted the pressures of that party, that'll likely cost them within the parties own politics.

[']['ear]

The GOP could have stopped this from happening. Facts already disagree with you.

Only a handful broke ranks, with serious party pressure not to do so, so the facts disagree with you.

[RandBlade]

Except enough did - this was a bipartisan motion cosponsored by a GOPer, but don't let that get in the way of your visceral hatred of the GOP.

[']['ear]

I only hate two elements of the GOP: those who were profligate spenders and are now preaching small government (i.e. hypocrites), and social conservatives who want to control people's sex lives. What, I'm not allowed to generalize with everybody else? The GOP as a whole fought strongly against DADT, and came within a hair's breadth of defeating it. Just because a handful of GOPers (God bless them--seriously) supported final passage in the Senate doesn't mean that the party as a whole isn't bigoted. They are anti-gay, at a time when most Americans aren't. No excuse for that on a civil rights issue.

[RandBlade]

You didn't say "elements of the GOP", you never do. What you said was "The one thing we can be sure of is that this wouldn't have happened with the GOP in power, or even with a close minority. Anybody dispute that?" - Categorical about the GOP, not elements and your usual M.O.

I'm sorry to say but you've always as long as I've known you to be virulently anti-GOP in the same way as Lewk is anti-"liberals". Barring Bush Snr I can't recall you ever saying a nice thing about the GOP.

[Enoch the Red]

You didn't say "elements of the GOP", you never do. What you said was "The one thing we can be sure of is that this wouldn't have happened with the GOP in power, or even with a close minority. Anybody dispute that?" - Categorical about the GOP, not elements and your usual M.O.

I'm sorry to say but you've always as long as I've known you to be virulently anti-GOP in the same way as Lewk is anti-"liberals". Barring Bush Snr I can't recall you ever saying a nice thing about the GOP.

Oh, I don't know RandBlade... He used to have a hard-on for McCain. Of course, he also used to be a member of the armed forces and a Republican...

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is there an opposite saying to "silver lining"? Like being able to find shit to nag about whenever something good happens?

If there is, replace this post with that saying.

[']['ear]

[QUOTE=RandBlade;63082]You didn't say "elements of the GOP", you never do. What you said was "The one thing we can be sure of is that this wouldn't have happened with the GOP in power, or even with a close minority. Anybody dispute that?" - Categorical about the GOP, not elements and your usual M.O.

Oh, so now you're getting punctilious, and we need to add "generally" to every statement we make? Because you know that virtually no statement holds 100% of the time, right?

But hey, I'm not ashamed to say that the GOP in general has gone off the deep end and become a party of mostly extremists. Guess what, this doesn't include all of them. Satisfy you? The Democrats are a moderate party. Guess what? This doesn't include all of them.

And that's all you're getting. I shouldn't be required to hedge any general statement like that, and you're being a flaming asshole to play those kinds of games.

I'm sorry to say but you've always as long as I've known you to be virulently anti-GOP in the same way as Lewk is anti-"liberals".

I'm sorry to say, but you're a bald-faced liar and an ass.

Barring Bush Snr I can't recall you ever saying a nice thing about the GOP.

Yeah, but him I called the best modern president, haven't I? I've praised Nixon, I've praised Spector, I've praised McCain. Hell, I voted for McCain. I voted for W (not a point of pride, but my opinion of his father was so high....) I've said something nice about almost all of the moderate Reps (Snowe, etc.). When they change, like McCain did during the 2008 election, then my opinion on him has changed.

Just look at our political spectrum games I posted the 2008 election one just a while back. The Dems beyond the tiny Kucinic left are right of center and more authoritarian than average. That makes the GOP extremists (um, Mr. Rand, is it OK if I speak generally here?) They've been moving steadily that direction, and consequently the volume and intensity of my dislike of them has increased. My motto has always been that extremism is bad. Period. Ain't my problem that the GOP is stampeding to the fringe.

And guess what? I am a moderate.

So stop your fucking poisoning the well tactics, you hack.

[Wraith]

Oh, I don't know RandBlade... He used to have a hard-on for McCain. Of course, he also used to be a member of the armed forces and a Republican...

<mod hat>Hi Enoch. Rules are a bit stricter here than they were in the final days of that place that shall not be named. We're trying not to do things like this, or go around trying to start fights. Please refrain from this sort of baiting in the future. Also, I'm apparently a mod now.

In the interest of fairness, since I understand where this is coming from, and since I really shouldn't have let it pass the first time, this:

Wow, epic distortion. I see you haven't changed. I'm done here, no point debating somebody who just outright lies.

Trolling should not be rewarded.

Sorry, not interested in your BS manipulation of facts and posts. Pass.

Troll

is also trolling. Tear, please refrain from doing this in the future. Repeatedly accusing someone of trolling out of nowhere is, in fact, trolling. </mod hat>

Now let's get back to talking about whether Obama or Republicans are to blame for DODT not getting repealed!

[Enoch the Red]

Ah, I see...

My apologies then.

I think we can make it more general than Obama or Republicans, and leave it at idiots are responsible for trying to block homosexuals from openly serving in the military.