What the hell is libertarianism?

[CitizenCain]

Are you seriously a criminal?

Everyone in this country is. You can't walk down to the corner store these days without violating at least one local, state or federal law.

A fair number of my posts on here could be classified as "seditious conspiracy" to a sufficiently annoyed federal prosecutor. <shrug> Seeing as how we're all heinous felons anyway, I say we should embrace it and do something to be worthy of the title!

But, no I don't actually diddle kiddies, if that's what you're asking. It does nothing for me. Much better to harm the government - there's more money in it, and it's a lot more fun too.

But...what about the old people? They're like gurus. You need to help the elderly!

Why? Really - why?

Of course not. What are we discussing again?

Young'uns as parasitic life forms, IIRC.

Any functional anarchist must also be armed and paranoid, I'd think. I think anarchism is absolutly impossible for a sane human being. Practically as soon as you get two guys in a room, someone's dominant and the rules begin. That's just how we are. (Human Condition )

You're taking it too far. It's not inevitable that someone will always achieve dominance - but it's practically inevitable that *at least* one of the people will try. Which is what makes anarchism impossible to actually implement.

But there's no historical precedent/evidence for that at all.

Sure there is. Even if you ignore the (modern) historical collapse of the ultimate expression of socialism, you've got dozens of empires that have fallen internally when the political class started redistributing wealth "too much." The threshold for what's "too much" seems to grow ever larger (I blame technological development, personally), but it's ultimately the same old story from Egypt to Greece to Rome to imperialist Europe... to the modern West. Too much taxation on the "productive" portions of society, and you either outright collapse, or weaken your society to the point that a rival become more powerful... and conquers you.

In fact, its the exact opposite. Liberal society has flourished beyond all imagination in the last 100 years.

Given modern lifespans, that's how many generations?

Yeah, we're doing well now, but if history is any indication, it won't last long, let alone forever.

That's what I don't get about conservatives (and you libertarians, as if there's a difference )

When was the last time you heard a "conservative" complain about the war on drugs, or advocate the idea that h0m0s are people too? Yeah, I get it, you're neither conservative or libertarian, but the two groups are still vastly different from each other.

- they want to tear down the mechanism that's made this nation, and Western society generally, a fantastic success.

Sounds suspiciously like the criticism of Chinese dissidents. Selfish bastards, wanting personal rights at the expense of the glorious Chinese Empire.

You've insulted him ten times as much as I have. Typical lying snake.

I have? Source, please. Because he doesn't seem to think so. And given that you seem to have a problem with me constantly bringing up your prior record vis-a-vis honesty, it would be swell if you could make an effort to be at least marginally truthful. Or, at the very least, put forth a very minimal effort to substantiate some of your wilder claims.

But Cain calling me to task about flaming somebody? 'Tis laughable. He's the #1 initiator of flames in our community, and always has been, and he distributes those flames most widely.

OK, let's accept that at face value, for the sake of argument. I still haven't flamed YoungMage (our new member), while most everyone else - yourself included - has. The fact that I'm a general asshole doesn't mean that I'm always an asshole to every specific member... in this case, YoungMage.

[Young Mage]

I just realized...why don't you flame me? I'd expect you to follow me around and smith my soul, i do spout a lot of nonsense.

[coinich]

I just realized...why don't you flame me? I'd expect you to follow me around and smith my soul, i do spout a lot of nonsense.

Its too easy.

[Young Mage]

Thanks for dumbing down what I just said and rephrasing it. I hear plagiarism is a great way to go especially if a brain wasn't included.

[coinich]

Thanks for dumbing down what I just said and rephrasing it. I hear plagiarism is a great way to go especially if a brain wasn't included.

Obviously agreeing with someone is now == to plagiarism. Watch out academia, now you have to cite your sources every time you agree with someone!

[CitizenCain]

I'd expect you to follow me around and smith my soul

That sounds suspiciously like work. Or at the very least, like it would involve effort and/or giving a damn.

Generally speaking, I prefer to be as lazy as possible, and require serious motivation to put even cursory effort into anything.

[Catgrrl]

Young Mage has a bit of a crush on Cain methinks. He should be careful, lest you ensnare him in one of your traps. Another youth corrupted at the hands of Cain .

Hi coinich! Haven't seen you in a while!

[']['ear]

He's totally crushing on Cain. And Cain has insulted him plenty already. Then again, so has everybody else.

[littlelolligagged]

He's totally crushing on Cain. And Cain has insulted him plenty already. Then again, so has everybody else.

I really wish you would actually quote some examples of Cain insulting him, because I don't actually remember seeing it happen. That's not to say that it hasn't, but since no one but you thinks it is happening and you are still acting like a baby about Cain, well...

[Dreadnaught]

Methinks Mage is actually trying to imitate Cain in some ways.

[littlelolligagged]

Methinks Mage is actually trying to imitate Cain in some ways.

So he wasn't like this in your DBZ-fiefdom?

[Young Mage]

Methinks Mage is actually trying to imitate Cain in some ways.

so? Anything wrong with that. He's a great influence on my generation and he's the funniest member on this site.

I really wish you would actually quote some examples of Cain insulting him, because I don't actually remember seeing it happen. That's not to say that it hasn't, but since no one but you thinks it is happening and you are still acting like a baby about Cain, well...

He's. the. only. one. who. thinks. that. Cain never insulted me that way ][ear or other members have. He made a "harsh" joke when I first came, but he still has to take a crack at me.

He's totally crushing on Cain. And Cain has insulted him plenty already. Then again, so has everybody else.

][ear, stop being a pathological liar and grow up. There is something called a "joke" and/or "humor" and even if you lead a bland, unloved , and unfulfilling life [as a pre-Contradona], you should at least know the ramifications those words bring to a verbal joust.

Young Mage has a bit of a crush on Cain methinks. He should be careful, lest you ensnare him in one of your traps. Another youth corrupted at the hands of Cain .

Cain approached me in a pedophile attire (pedophile glasses, beard, and public masturbater coat (c) Jon Lajoie) and offered me candy in exchange for helping him overthrow the government allowing him to give me a "ride" in his shag-van.

I do totally not try to sound like him!

That sounds suspiciously like work. Or at the very least, like it would involve effort and/or giving a damn.

Generally speaking, I prefer to be as lazy as possible, and require serious motivation to put even cursory effort into anything.

I'm sure you have other reasons.

[CitizenCain]

Another youth corrupted at the hands of Cain .

Granted, I enjoy it a lot more when the youth in question is a hot female who I help put in touch with her inner nympho, () but even when it's not... well, I guess corrupting minors is just my way of giving back to the world.

He's totally crushing on Cain. And Cain has insulted him plenty already.

Please try harder. It's just no fun to speak of contras and such when you make it this easy.

Cain approached me in a pedophile attire (pedophile glasses, bear, and public masturbater coat (c) Jon Lajoie) and offered me candy in exchange for helping him overthrow the government allowing him to give me a "ride" in his shag-van.

I'm sure you have other reasons.

Well, contrary to what you may hear, I generally don't follow people around flaming (or mentoring) them. Too much effort, and generally no reward.

Of course, if you wanna come for another spin in my free candy van, then sure, we could work out a mentoring program or something.

[Catgrrl]

Off topic here: but should I be concerned that the ice cream man in my mother's neighborhood was playing his music and driving around after 9 last week? Hmmm....

[littlelolligagged]

Off topic here: but should I be concerned that the ice cream man in my mother's neighborhood was playing his music and driving around after 9 last week? Hmmm....

Only if you didn't have cash for ice cream.

It is kind of strange since it probably wasn't still light out, though.

[Catgrrl]

I never have cash for the ice cream man. My parents still laugh because when I hear the music my eyes light up.

Ya, it's pretty dark here by 8 or so right now.

[']['ear]

Off topic here: but should I be concerned that the ice cream man in my mother's neighborhood was playing his music and driving around after 9 last week? Hmmm....

Yeah! That happened in our neighborhood too!

[Being]

24/7 drug delivery service?

[']['ear]

Good idea

[Catgrrl]

That has actually happened in a neighboring city before. But the van they used was obviously not the ice cream truck.

The one I saw was a Blue Bunny van, so it looked legit. Who knows.

[littlelolligagged]

That has actually happened in a neighboring city before. But the van they used was obviously not the ice cream truck.

The one I saw was a Blue Bunny van, so it looked legit. Who knows.

I don't think they come with licenses to sell ice cream and sex offender/felony checks or anything like that.

Kinda creepy, now that I think about it. Not that I ever actually have cash when one comes by here, anyway.

[']['ear]

I do remember being hyper-attuned to that sound when I was a kid. The ding ding man (they had this stupid bell they rang by hand--yeah, good driving safety there, I bet.) In a certain age range I could hear it, beg money from my parents and get to the curb in about 30 seconds.

PS You want creepy? What could possibly sound creepier than "ding ding man?" Frackin 70s.

[EyeKhan]

You're taking it too far. It's not inevitable that someone will always achieve dominance - but it's practically inevitable that *at least* one of the people will try. Which is what makes anarchism impossible to actually implement.

There is always dominance. I don't think any two people can be on the same footing at the same time. Oddly the roles change in individual relationships. When you go out partying with your buddy and you get in a fight, you might take the dominant roll because of your rippling biceps and your eight years of karate training. However, because you're dumb with computers, when you can't get your wireless network set up, your buddy takes on a dominant role while helping you. I think these little interpersonal relationship dominances are the seeds that ultimately lead to the stratification of human society at all levels. No two people are ever equal in their own minds.

Sure there is. Even if you ignore the (modern) historical collapse of the ultimate expression of socialism, you've got dozens of empires that have fallen internally when the political class started redistributing wealth "too much."

Ah fuck it. Its not worth arguing about.

Yeah, we're doing well now, but if history is any indication, it won't last long, let alone forever.

Cain, human civilization today, as we know it, is entirely without social, political, economic and technological precedent. There is no past civilization you can point to and say "that was like we are today, and we're going to end up like them." I'm not saying we're high flying magical super technocrats that can't have a total collapse, but there is no historical precedent like you are arguing. I believe I've predicted before the odds are our civlization's going to collapse in the next hundred years and I believe its a better than 50/50 chance. But it will be a different kind of collapse than ever before and for entirely different reasons.

When was the last time you heard a "conservative" complain about the war on drugs, or advocate the idea that h0m0s are people too? Yeah, I get it, you're neither conservative or libertarian, but the two groups are still vastly different from each other.

You're socially liberal and economically conservative. Before Reagan started the GOP down its disaster, it seems the party brass were a lot like you, though perhaps not as extreme. As far as social values are concerned, I might as well be a libertarian myself. In any case, I'm just yanking your chain a little in that quote.

Sounds suspiciously like the criticism of Chinese dissidents. Selfish bastards, wanting personal rights at the expense of the glorious Chinese Empire.

It's not at all. And you know it. Government investment in the economic, educational and technological infrastructure of this country over the last 80 years +/- is what has made us into a great nation. If Libertarians were running the country all that time, none of that would have happened and we'd be like Mexico. Or worese.

Regarding China, I'm beginning to wonder if their model of civilization might be superior to ours. They're wildly economically successful with their mix of capitalism and protectionism and they're able to make very long term plans, which we are not. As long as their government is competent in its planning and reasonably so in its governing, they're going to be amazing. And that's the trick - with a totalitarian government, they don't have a good way of ensuring competent leadership, so far as I can tell. Time will tell...

[GGT]

Cain, human civilization today, as we know it, is entirely without social, political, economic and technological precedent. There is no past civilization you can point to and say "that was like we are today, and we're going to end up like them." I'm not saying we're high flying magical super technocrats that can't have a total collapse, but there is no historical precedent like you are arguing. I believe I've predicted before the odds are our civlization's going to collapse in the next hundred years and I believe its a better than 50/50 chance. But it will be a different kind of collapse than ever before and for entirely different reasons.

We're more interconnected now. Just look at what a volcano did to global travel and commerce, and what's happening with Greece. When a giant OR a midget falls, it will take others down too, like dominoes. Jenga.

[Young Mage]

Take me as your apprentice Cain.

[Catgrrl]

You'll want to watch your cornhole if you are going to be under Cain.

teehee

[EyeKhan]

Take me as your apprentice Cain.

Jesus, you really are stupid, arn't you?

You'll want to watch your cornhole if you are going to be under Cain.

teehee

[Nessus]

lol

[Young Mage]

You'll want to watch your cornhole if you are going to be under Cain.

teehee

that's the kettle calling the kell.

Jesus, you really are stupid, arn't you?

You're just jealous you're not my role model!

[EyeKhan]

that's the kettle calling the kell.



You're just jealous you're not my role model!

It would be quite a challenge; mentoring you, I mean.