Brexit Begins

[Hazir]

And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

In case you've forgotten my concern with the EU was not that it was not worth making a deal with, but it was unable to make one.

Inconvenient truths you prefer to ignore I see.

Your opinion or that of your PM is hardly of any interest.

[RandBlade]

Inconvenience truths matter a lot. We are leaving because too many inconvenient truths were brushes under the carpet for too long afterall.

[Khendraja'aro]

Inconvenience truths matter a lot. We are leaving because too many inconvenient truths were brushes under the carpet for too long afterall.

The irony is strong with this one.

[Hazir]

Inconvenience truths matter a lot. We are leaving because too many inconvenient truths were brushes under the carpet for too long afterall.

Inconvenient truths like that how most of your 'problems with the EU' were simply home made?

[RandBlade]

It's not like we weren't alive and well to the inconvenient truths as to what was wrong with the EU for a long time before the referendum, as much as others want to shrug and pretend everything is hunkydory and insult those who possess a healthy scepticism.

[Khendraja'aro]

It's not like we weren't alive and well to the inconvenient truths as to what was wrong with the EU for a long time before the referendum, as much as others want to shrug and pretend everything is hunkydory and insult those who possess a healthy scepticism.

And now you even doubled down on the irony!

[RandBlade]

That's not true.

[RandBlade]

I've not pretended everything is hunkydory or been the one flinging out insults.

[Khendraja'aro]

Must've been someone else then who thinks that Brexit is the best thing since sliced bread.

[RandBlade]

Must've been someone else then who thinks that Brexit is the best thing since sliced bread.

Must've been. I was the one who decided it was on balance the right thing to vote for but was torn and only swung that way quite late. Had I felt it was the best thing since sliced bread I'd have not been torn - and it would have been an easy decision.

[Hazir]

Must've been. I was the one who decided it was on balance the right thing to vote for but was torn and only swung that way quite late. Had I felt it was the best thing since sliced bread I'd have not been torn - and it would have been an easy decision.

Brexitanian logic; when in doubt, break glass and jump off the cliff.

[RandBlade]

Brexitanian logic; when in doubt, break glass and jump off the cliff.

Ramoanier logic: when in doubt do nothing and stand still on the road/train tracks/in the burning building.

[Aimless]

with tea and jam

[Khendraja'aro]

with tea and jam

But no Prosecco, mind!

[Ominous Gamer]

Rand has been an all in type for as long as I can remember. Once he thinks he finally has something figured out he doesn't waver or second guess. Its a final all-in decision. He's displayed this in both his political opinions and in snippets of his life stories.

[RandBlade]

Rand has been an all in type for as long as I can remember. Once he thinks he finally has something figured out he doesn't waver or second guess. Its a final all-in decision. He's displayed this in both his political opinions and in snippets of his life stories.

That's quite insightful.

It's why when I play poker I often end up chip leader and then losing.

[Khendraja'aro]

That's quite insightful.

It's why when I play poker I often end up chip leader and then losing.

Well, currently you're playing poker with your country's economy. Your experience in that game should give you pause.

[Aimless]

*shrug* It's a popular way to run a business or a political campaign.

[Hazir]

You are mistaking me for someone I presume.

[RandBlade]

We've already pushed our chips in, too late to fold now.

[Timbuk2]

Chips in indeed, let's see how those cards play out.

~

A new Brexit project kicks off in earnest tomorrow at my bank which I'll have a little involvement with; Euro-clearings shifting over from London to Paris.

As things stand today, this is the only material change at the bank that has resulted from the vote to leave.

The card game unfolding will decide what else, if anything, the banks eventually do.

[Hazir]

Chips in indeed, let's see how those cards play out.

~

A new Brexit project kicks off in earnest tomorrow at my bank which I'll have a little involvement with; Euro-clearings shifting over from London to Paris.

As things stand today, this is the only material change at the bank that has resulted from the vote to leave.

The card game unfolding will decide what else, if anything, the banks eventually do.

If there is any room for common sense on the side of the British government there will be an agreement to end EU membership and the start of a transitional period which lasts till the end of the current budget cycle. The UK will withdraw from the organization once the two years are up (or earlier if possible) but otherwise the Treaties will be appliccable untill at least the end of the transitional period.

This approach will mean that indeed Brexit is Brexit. It will avoid presenting the UK with something that resembles an exit bill. Also it will enable the UK starting up talks with the wider world and it will give the UK a decent number of years to come to a new type of accomodation with the EU without a huge risk of falling off the cliff. Advantage for businesses is that they will know from the beginning what will be on the table and what will not.

What is an absolute condition for this to happen is a settlement for the rights of EU27 citizens living in the UK up untill at least Brexit and probably the end of the transitional period that from the British point of view is gold plated. The reason why it needs to be gold plated is that for the vast majority of Brits living in the EU27 that will be what they will get on the basis of present legislation. Any hint that British citizens get the better deal would mean political suicide for the EU side. And that is something thats not going to happen.

[Hazir]

Interesting; seems the EU is going to instruct the UK Home office on how not to treat EU citizens. That aggressive attitude, sending people with absolute right to be in the UK letters telling them to prepare to leave, really has paid off.

[RandBlade]

There was no aggression. Bureaucratic incompetence strikes again, you are aware that those who got those pro forma letters have already been told they don't need to leave right?

The template for if someone's request for right to remain gets rejected is to advise them to leave or appeal the decision because people who already have right to remain rarely apply for it redundantly. A surge of people who already had right to remain seeking it but not filling in the ridiculously bureaucratic papers correctly has caused this "computer says no" nonsense.

[Aimless]

There was no aggression. Bureaucratic incompetence strikes again, you are aware that those who got those pro forma letters have already been told they don't need to leave right?

The template for if someone's request for right to remain gets rejected is to advise them to leave or appeal the decision because people who already have right to remain rarely apply for it redundantly. A surge of people who already had right to remain seeking it but not filling in the ridiculously bureaucratic papers correctly has caused this "computer says no" nonsense.

It was not clear whether or not they would have a right to remain and that uncertainty was a result of govt. policy.

[RandBlade]

It was a conscious policy choice made by the conservative government.

No it was not. They have right to remain still, nothing has changed on that and the government has made clear it would like that to continue. There has been no policy change.

There is no excuse whatsoever for a government agency sending a letter to a person stating the exact opposite of his actual rights under the law.

As I said, it was incompetent. It was also cleared up as soon as it came to light - ages ago.

It was not clear whether or not they would have a right to remain and that uncertainty was a result of govt. policy.

It is crystal clear they still have a right to remain. The government policy is to negotiate a reciprocal right to remain but the EU has not agreed to it yet. That is not our government that is standing in the way of that. An offer was made and rebuffed to agree a reciprocal agreement before Article 50 was invoked but that offer was turned down. In the Article 50 invocation letter we made clear our wish to resolve this ASAP. So what policy are you objecting to?

[Hazir]

No it was not. They have right to remain still, nothing has changed on that and the government has made clear it would like that to continue. There has been no policy change.
As I said, it was incompetent. It was also cleared up as soon as it came to light - ages ago.
It is crystal clear they still have a right to remain. The government policy is to negotiate a reciprocal right to remain but the EU has not agreed to it yet. That is not our government that is standing in the way of that. An offer was made and rebuffed to agree a reciprocal agreement before Article 50 was invoked but that offer was turned down. In the Article 50 invocation letter we made clear our wish to resolve this ASAP. So what policy are you objecting to?

You can talk untill your tongue turns blue but the fact of the matter was that that a government agency handed ut decisions in direct violation of the law. On the basis of a standing policy. If the officers writing those letters did not know they were acting unlawful that does not absolve the political leadership.

You should be ashamed of the fact that the EU needs to take action to force your government to apply the law and act in a decent way with its clients.

[RandBlade]

You can talk untill your tongue turns blue but the fact of the matter was that that a government agency handed ut decisions in direct violation of the law. On the basis of a standing policy. If the officers writing those letters did not know they were acting unlawful that does not absolve the political leadership.

You should be ashamed of the fact that the EU needs to take action to force your government to apply the law and act in a decent way with its clients.

The EU does not need to take any action. The UK already took action to fix the mistake as soon as it came to light. That the EU has chosen to jump on the bandwagon afterwards says nothing of any merit.

If the EU fixed its own problems before others jumped on them to do so we'd be in a much better state.

It is clear they have every right to stay. The outrage is that they need to go to court to make a government agency confirm that they fucked up on an epic scale. If I were living in the UK I would not believe anything the British government tells me about my status. They now tell people to not apply, despite the fact that they have just shown to not apply the law, nor common decency.

They don't need to go to court, the agency confirmed they'd messed up the second these letters originally reached the media. As for being shown not to apply the law, they did apply the law - and common decency. There was a mistake on the paperwork, the mistake came to light and they immediately said "ignore that, it's wrong". Oh big whoop.

[Hazir]

It was not clear whether or not they would have a right to remain and that uncertainty was a result of govt. policy.

It is clear they have every right to stay. The outrage is that they need to go to court to make a government agency confirm that they fucked up on an epic scale. If I were living in the UK I would not believe anything the British government tells me about my status. They now tell people to not apply, despite the fact that they have just shown to not apply the law, nor common decency.

[Aimless]

It is clear they have every right to stay. The outrage is that they need to go to court to make a government agency confirm that they fucked up on an epic scale.

It was not clear because they could not count on the UK to do the right thing, hence the tremendous surge of "unnecessary" applications.