Health Care Debate

[Illusions]

Is this because the public option got shafted?

(Yeah, I understand very little of the whole deal)

I'm not following it as much as I probably should, mainly because what this healthcare bill is hasn't been really finalized until now, and I don't have any input on it, and besides that the media seems to enjoy portraying it however they wish...so my stance has been to see what comes out and go from there, but yes it appears that it was supposed to go with the public option, ie. you'd have to get insurance but could get it from the gov't instead of a private insurer if you wanted to, but then it was removed.

[Ziggy Stardust]

With all the discussion on American Health Care, I probably have a better understanding of that, then which I have of our own system. (which is very little)

[Hazir]

You don't need a public option for the system to work. But you can be certain there will be a follow up on cost reduction.

[Illusions]

You don't need a public option for the system to work. But you can be certain there will be a follow up on cost reduction.

So...what exactly? I've just been informed that I will now have to give money to a bunch of people who enjoy playing number games to benefit themselves come the end of the year...or face a fine...how is having a public option the same as this current scenario?

[Angel_Mapper]

Oh yay! Solving my lack of insurance by forcing me to buy it or paying a fine! Awesome. Are cardboard boxes edible?

[Illusions]

Are cardboard boxes edible?

They are, but lacking in nutritional value. Don't eat yourself out of a house though...

It looks like the fine part doesn't kick in until 2014 though, so we have 4 years before we have to pay for insurance...

[DecoyMilk]

HAVE to pay for insurance?

Whoa whoa whoa, this sounds like you guys got fucked over good and proper :/

[LittleFuzzy]

. But you can be certain there will be a follow up on cost reduction.

We can? We certainly OUGHT to be, but Congress has now passed its landmark legislation. They've gotten their brownie points, and so there's going to be a lot less pressure on them to cooperate and pass the follow-on measures that might make it more rationale.

[GGT]

Illusions, if you're under 26 yrs old you can get on your folks' policy. If your employer has more than 50 employees, they'll be required to offer you a group policy. If you can't find one less than 6% of your income, you'll get a subsidy to buy into state exchanges. If you don't buy a plan, the fine is something like $100 the first year, then going higher. If you make less than 400% of poverty level, you get a subsidy. If you make 103% of poverty level, you qualify for Medicaid.

At least that's how I read it. Like you said, most of this won't take effect until 2014, when the state exchanges are supposedly opening.



They never stipulate what "owning an insurance policy" means. Does an affordable, crappy CAT plan qualify, even if it has a $10,000 deductible, but the policy owner can't pay that kind of money OOP? Does a HSA count as an 'insurance' policy?

Do they wait until we show up in the ED to see if we have insurance? Are the providers supposed to report us to the IRS or HHS or state insurance commissioner if we don't? Why wouldn't we just wait to get sick, pay the fine, and file for bankruptcy?

And what happens to the COBRA subsidy? Does that subsidy just go away?

[Illusions]

HAVE to pay for insurance?

Whoa whoa whoa, this sounds like you guys got fucked over good and proper :/

Starting in 2014, most Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.

• The penalty will be phased in, starting at 1 percent of income in 2014, and rising to the maximum of $2,085 for a family in 2016.
• American Indians don’t have to buy insurance. Those with religious objections or a financial hardship can also avoid the requirement. And if you would pay more than 8 percent of your income for the cheapest available plan, you will not be penalized for failing to buy coverage.
• Those who are exempt, or under 30, can buy a policy that only pays for catastrophic medical costs. It must allow for three primary care visits a year as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...tml#scenario-8

It also looks like I would not qualify for Medicaid, as the cutoff is approximately $29,000 for a family of four, in 2009 and I made slightly more than that as myself without a family.

Illusions, if you're under 26 yrs old you can get on your folks' policy. If your employer has more than 50 employees, they'll be required to offer you a group policy. If you can't find one less than 6% of your income, you'll get a subsidy to buy into state exchanges. If you don't buy a plan, the fine is something like $100 the first year, then going higher. If you make less than 400% of poverty level, you get a subsidy. If you make 103% of poverty level, you qualify for Medicaid.

I'm going to be 26 in September, and 29 by 2014. My employer does not have more than 50 employees, and I'm likely being laid off at the end of the week. I don't know what I'll be doing 4 years from now but I'm not thrilled about having to give money to a private insurer or face penalties. I worked medical records for 8 years prior to this job. I know how dick-ish they can be. Its on an order of being marginally better than paying the mafia protection money.

[Hazir]

So...what exactly? I've just been informed that I will now have to give money to a bunch of people who enjoy playing number games to benefit themselves come the end of the year...or face a fine...how is having a public option the same as this current scenario?

HAVE to pay for insurance?

Whoa whoa whoa, this sounds like you guys got fucked over good and proper :/

We can? We certainly OUGHT to be, but Congress has now passed its landmark legislation. They've gotten their brownie points, and so there's going to be a lot less pressure on them to cooperate and pass the follow-on measures that might make it more rationale.

The costs of healthcare in the US have effectively been fiscalized now. The government can't afford not to start tackling the current level and/or rise thereof. Not acting will automatically lead to really unsustainable deficits.

Let there be no mistake about it; regardless what logo the letters come with, you're all effectively on Medicare now.

[GGT]

I'm going to be 26 in September, and 29 by 2014. My employer does not have more than 50 employees, and I'm likely being laid off at the end of the week. I don't know what I'll be doing 4 years from now but I'm not thrilled about having to give money to a private insurer or face penalties. I worked medical records for 8 years prior to this job. I know how dick-ish they can be. Its on an order of being marginally better than paying the mafia protection money.

Yeah, I've felt that way about mandated auto insurance, too. I don't have the option of opting-out of driving a car. It is like mafia protection, almost extortion, or paying a bookie who keeps changing the odds of doing business with a loan shark.

There are some positive things in the bill, like removing pre-existing conditions and removing life time caps, and the new interstate exchanges. Whether or not it makes insurance more affordable, we'll see.

There's also one part requiring insurers to cover some outpatient testing, that might benefit people (because it's expensive) but our premiums will reflect that. My plan is pretty horrible, but I don't want elective testing covered....I want outpatient services like chemotherapy or physical therapy covered.


Other questions: what if you don't buy a plan covering organ or bone marrow transplants, then you need one? Does someone help you move into the High Risk group plans and cover it retroactively, or do you just move into Medicare?

[GGT]

*The Baby Killer Bill*

Procedural and philosophical. I'm disappointed the pro-life anti-abortion legislators tried to use this as a wedge issue. (R) from Texas shouting out "It's a baby killer" during Stupak's comments. Stupak and others using abortion as a big stick in the debates of general health care reform, and federal funding. Quotes from Catholic bishops vs nuns, the Hyde amendment, the executive order, the whole shebang.

[Steely Glint]

I’ve been an analysis for long enough to know that numbers can tell be massaged to tell any story, and they can even be made up as well.

As opposed to the total reliability of personal anecdotes?

[Dreadnaught]

The next bill should be to rename USA to UK Part 2! (exclamation included)

seriously though, there's a reason most of your greatest presidents in history wanted this. You may hate it now, and Obama may only get 1 term because of it, but in 10 years time he'll be remembered as a hero

Sorry, I gotta chime in, because I feel this is a really bad way to look at this. Using this logic, you should just follow people blindly no matter how bad their ideas are.

Actually this part:



Means that I will now have to apply for Medicaid, if I can (I haven't looked over any of the new requirements), and if I can't will have to pay for insurance with a private insurer...yay! Can you feel the sarcasm of that yay?

This is the part of the bill I have a problem with though.

I know, I can't wait for my unemployed friends who supported this to wake up and have to ask their parents for a bailout.

But sorry for your personal plight on this one.

[Being]

This article expresses a reasonable take on moving forward.

But there are things that can be done, and here are some early priorities:

1) One of the worst things about the Democrats' plan is the method of financing: an increase in tax on high-income earners. At first that tax bites only a very small number, but the new taxes will surely be applied to larger and larger portions of the American population over time.

Republicans champion lower taxes and faster economic growth. We need to start thinking now about how to get rid of these new taxes on work, saving and investment -- if necessary by finding other sources of revenue, including carbon taxes.

2) We should quit defending employment-based health care. The leading Republican spokesman in the House on these issues, Rep. Paul Ryan, repeatedly complained during floor debate that the Obama plan would "dump" people out of employer-provided care into the exchanges. He said that as if it were a bad thing.

Yet free-market economists from Milton Friedman onward have identified employer-provided care as the original sin of American health care. Employers choose different policies for employees than those employees would choose for themselves. The cost is concealed.

Wages are depressed without employees understanding why. The day when every employee in America gets his or her insurance through an exchange will be a good day for market economics. It's true that the exchanges are subsidized. So is employer-provided care, to the tune of almost $200 billion a year.

3) We should call for reducing regulation of the policies sold inside the health care exchanges. The Democrats' plans require every policy sold within the exchanges to meet certain strict conditions.

American workers will lose the option of buying more basic but cheaper plans. It will be as if the only cable packages available were those that include all the premium channels. No bargains in that case. Republicans should press for more scope for insurers to cut prices if they think they can offer an attractive product that way.

4) The Democratic plan requires businesses with payrolls more than $500,000 to buy health insurance for their workers or face fines of $2,000 per worker. Could there be a worse time to heap this new mandate on smaller employers? Health insurance comes out of employee wages, plain and simple. Employers who do not offer health insurance must compete for labor against those who do -- and presumably pay equivalent wages for equivalent work.

Uninsured employees have now through the exchanges been provided an easy and even subsidized way to buy their own coverage. There is no justification for the small-business fine: Republicans should press for repeal.

[GGT]

2) We should quit defending employment-based health care. The leading Republican spokesman in the House on these issues, Rep. Paul Ryan, repeatedly complained during floor debate that the Obama plan would "dump" people out of employer-provided care into the exchanges. He said that as if it were a bad thing.

Yet free-market economists from Milton Friedman onward have identified employer-provided care as the original sin of American health care. Employers choose different policies for employees than those employees would choose for themselves. The cost is concealed.

Wages are depressed without employees understanding why. The day when every employee in America gets his or her insurance through an exchange will be a good day for market economics. It's true that the exchanges are subsidized. So is employer-provided care, to the tune of almost $200 billion a year.

I agree with this part, didn't know Milton et al did too.

If we're going to keep this employer based system, I propose we start making all federal employees pay 100% of their premiums. Currently congress pays ~20% and We The People pick up the other 80%. Once they're out of office, they should lose those health benefits, and be forced to shop around just like other workers in 'the real world'. Maybe then we'd see some real changes.

[littlelolligagged]

Ha ... I'm so disturbingly entertained...

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_sto...42036&catid=40

Now all the other states will try to copy Georgia.

But, as usual, it's the comments that explain why I keep going back to that local news website, even though I refuse to watch their broadcasts anymore because they have decided that people don't actually want to see news when they watch the news.

Is this health care bill communism, or is it socialism?
It is both. While many more will now be guaranteed health care, anyone who now owns or has ever owned a firearm will be denied care. Also, anyone over the age of 62, or who is in any other way considered a drain on our society regardless of age, such as Downs' Syndrome infants and children, will be denied care. Anyone who is a grandmother will automatically be denied care permanently. All unmarried girls under the age of 21 who become pregnant will be subject to mandatory abortion but will not be required to pay for it; federal abortion clinics will be funded by a new tax on families earning more than $96,000 per year. All Medicaid recipients will each be assigned a medical team to provide daily in-home doctor visits and round-the-clock nursing along with high-speed internet and big-screen TV.

You know: it seems that some people are so Blind that they can't see the REAL result of this "reform". We are being told we must hand over part of our Freedom of Choice to the Government...the First Stop in a Socialist government!

The Founding Fathers intended for the Federal Government to have Limited powers, and to Serve the CITIZENS of this Country. Now, these yo-yos think they know better than the Founding Fathers!

This is what people get when you dont worry about what the government does. First it was the patiot act the took away all our rights as citizens, now we are forced with this health care crap. This is what happens when you elect someone like obama! and believe me it will only get worse.Welcome to the UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA. A big thank you to the dumb asses that elected him.

I don't know what is wrong with people. Do they not realize that this is best for all, especially children. I voted in the last major election and it seems that the people we voted far only care for themselves and not us. We sent them to Washington to do what is best for us, not their party. Come on people remember who sent you to Washington. Think about what is best for not just the people who have a job, but those who don't!!!!. They need your help to.

Since when is it a "right" to have health care. The only right I've ever heard of in the constitution is the right of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
basmiles if you can't afford to feed, cloth, and provide health care for children then maybe the parents shouldn't have them. And yes I was out of work for a short time once and I still managed to support my family.

Good Idea! All of the Liberals, Scalawags, Mooches, Bums, Crackheads, and Theives can leave our Beautiful South..and we will have our own Country again!

Southeners come in all Races, and we are ALL Tired of the Federal Government BULL. This Nation was Founded by God-Fearing men, who strove to insure that the Rights of the People supercede the rights of the Federal Government.

Health Care is not a "right", just like Driving a Vehicle or owning a Home is Not a "Right"! Our Nation was Founded on Principles of Government of the People and for the People...remember a Yankee President named Abe said that.

Something of this magnitude should have been voted on by all the people, not the elected previledged, well to do.

How can it be said that nothing was under the table? Look at that executive order that STILL needs to be signed, is not law, and can pulled by the president at any time. Stupak's district got over 700k in three airport grants on the 19th. Tell me that wasn't "under the table"! Look at all those undecided that ended up voting "yes" research what their family or district got in the last week or two.

[ar81]

Comment on article about healthcare bill:

First and fore most, I’m glad that this health care bill has passed. One being that my partner was hospitalized last year with a heart condition. Luckily, the doctors was able to find the problem and fix it. In return due to being denied health insurance from Pacific Source of Oregon, Kasier Permanente, Oregon health plan, Aging with disability of Oregon, plus many other health plans; we got stuck in a hard place with a 50,000.00 dollar medical bill. Trust me it’s 50,000.00 dollars and we have proof of all the denial letter and the medical bills. On top of that, due to his job not offering health insurance because he’s consider a on call person, we had nothing.

Just imagine having 50,000.00 dollars in medical bills. Luckily, a couple of the hospital’s wrote off some of the bills, but we’re still getting collection letter’s telling us we need to pay it.

Guess what, we don’t have that kind of money laying around. With our combined annual salaries we make just above 20,000.00-30,000.00 annual if that. I’m 23 year’s old and he’s 26. We kept thinking that a problem wouldn’t occur and that he’ll find a job in time that will have health insurance, but guess what…. it’s been over a year and he still has a on call job while having to collect unemployment when he’s not working. He’s constantly looking for a job, but with little success he still hasn’t found one. So, he’s keeping the on call job for now until the economy picks back up.

Well to end this little story, we decided to do our research and was able to sign up with the Oregon Medical Insurance Pool with a 1,500.00 dollar deductible and a separate 1,000.00 dollar deductible for prescription/drug coverage. We have been lucky lately that there hasn’t been problems and the medication that was prescribed by one of the doctors are helping, but overall we have to wait 6 months for the pre-existing clause to end to finally use the insurance. The monthly premiums are 290.00 dollars a month and we can’t use it for anything that is consider pre-existing until the 6 month’s is up or end up paying the full cost with the possibility of being denied and retroactive back to when it was first issued. The medication cost us roughly 60.00 dollars a month with a Walgreen’s drug saver’s card.

But for the people complaining and bickering about this health care reform being passed…. YOUR SELFISH!!! I would be glad to pay some sort of tax just so we can have health insurance. In this tough economy and having a health condition that needs addressing; I can’t believe how much people bicker about this being passed.

It’s not the end of the world and I know that there is going to be problems with this bill, but it’s a start. If you think that we can ask his parent’s for the money to pay this, think again they already said no and it’s not their problem.

I’m glad the democrats finally passed this and I’m glad that he’s finally be able to get subsidies to help pay for the cost. With the rising prices in food, gas, housing, medication, health insurance and all other day to day need I’m glad that this bill has finally passed.

I’ll definitely be voting the democrats back in office and I’ll definitely be telling everyone about our situation.

PS. We are still getting medical bills as of 3/23/2010. We have 4-5 months left before he can finally use the health insurance that he has just in time before the medication that is prescribed needs to be re-prescribed.

It seems that this bill may be good for many Americans.

[GGT]

Combined annual income of $30,000 doesn't qualify for Medicaid in Oregon?

[Ziggy Stardust]

He be signing: http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-SPAN.aspx

[littlelolligagged]

Signing with multiple pens, even.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Just so I don't get accused of being biased. The other side's argument. Try to keep a straight face.

http://www.thefoxnation.com/sarah-pa...o-love-america

[Illusions]

The comments make me sad.

Edit: Didn't watch the video yet. Do I want to? Probably not...

[GGT]

OK, this interstate commerce interpretation....seems to me if the challengers get their way, it just opens up the Public Option then, which they also fought. "Forcing" people to purchase things can get muddy. Back in the 80s my employer had a private pension plan, and they had tried to opt-out of SS deductions. Went to state supreme court and lost: feds can mandate paying into SS, whether we'd use it or not.

Maybe it's a stretch, but I could see an interpretation that ALL health care is tied to private insurance and IS commerce, so we are required to follow federal mandates?

[Being]

Just so I don't get accused of being biased. The other side's argument. Try to keep a straight face.

http://www.thefoxnation.com/sarah-pa...o-love-america

I'd like to know where all this rage was when we re-took Fannie and Freddie into the government's caring embrace? And when we took over a large chunk of GM? And when we nationalized AIG's debt?

[GGT]

Don't forget the bank bailouts.

[Being]

Don't forget the bank bailouts.

I guess rescuing capitalism isn't socialistic.

[Illusions]

I'd like to know where all this rage was when we re-took Fannie and Freddie into the government's caring embrace? And when we took over a large chunk of GM? And when we nationalized AIG's debt?

No one told them to rage, or anything to be enraged about. A lot of people raging about this probably have no idea or no clear one of what actually happened yesterday, or what is going to happen because of this bill.

[GGT]

Whatever happened to the idea that illegal immigrants should allowed to purchase insurance in the US? Or will this ramp up into an immigration reform frenzy?