Because it's against his religious beliefs. He's being consistent albeit wrong misguided abd possibly also well you know. Where's nessie when you need her
Because it's against his religious beliefs. He's being consistent albeit wrong misguided abd possibly also well you know. Where's nessie when you need her
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So to summarise you're willing to slate me, but not provide any alternative proportion despite agreeing its a known problem.Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Because I knew if I answered both of your questions, you'd answer neither. You've not answered the first despite the fact I have.I'm curoius now why its so uncomfortable for you tackle the question of treatment
To move on I would be far more cautious before giving dangerous, addictive and mind-altering drugs to young children trying other alternatives first.
How do you propose that the misdiagnosed who don't actually suffer from it should be handled?
a single misdiagnosis is a problem, it doesn't suggest an epidemic, you know nothing that suggests that or the lesser "mostly"
I believe I answered the question more honestly than you did.Because I knew if I answered both of your questions, you'd answer neither. You've not answered the first despite the fact I have.
I'm assuming you are referring to Ritalin. You will be happy to know there are other drugs that work against ADHD as well, with fewer side effects. Ritalin has become such the scarlett letter that Florida's medicaid doesn't cover it, but plenty of its counterparts.To move on I would be far more cautious before giving dangerous, addictive and mind-altering drugs to young children trying other alternatives first.
How do you propose that the misdiagnosed who don't actually suffer from it should be handled?
There are also treatments that don't require medication. There are entire schools that train the mentally handicapped to conquer their disabilities in ways that allow for a higher level of living; and several of their methods are transferrable to suffers of ADHD.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Yes I am referring to Ritalin - and other such alternatives in the same drug type.
I am not aware of any non-addictive drugs being offered as treatment without the risk of dangerous side effects, if there are some I would be interested to know what.
Non-medicinal alternatives I have absolutely no problem with whatsoever and fall exactly into the category of what I think should be tried first, I have been saying all along that my concern is reaching too quickly for the pharmacy.
Uh, Rand, depression does not have reliable markers which show up in a test. Mental disorders very rarely can be diagnosed through a blood test.
Does not mean that stuff like schizophrenia does not exist.
That's actually the completely wrong way to deal with true ADHD. You usually need stuff like Ritalin to get the kids down to a level where you can teach them to deal with that issue.
It's akin to setting a broken bone - you can do that without pain medication, doesn't mean that you should.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Well The Boy has ADHD, and a host of other developmental issues. Due to his appetite suppression, we finally switched to 2nd tier drug that is NOT a stimulant, and has had a little of his negative behaviors return but he is eating again.
I will note that his behaviors have been improved when we got him by adjusting his medication AND our parenting style. His first placement was NOT a match. His teachers noted a marked change in his behavior within 2 months (before we changed his meds)
So...yer both right?
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Kids cry, it's a fact of life. Often at inopportune moments (while shopping, or on an airplane) but that doesn't necessarily mean they're "brats" or acting "bratty". Some kids have really obnoxious cries that sound more like screeching or screaming to casual observers. Especially infants, or toddlers that aren't verbal yet, or special needs kids. An older child with autism, ADHD, or other disorders may look like a "brat" having a temper tantrum, because those conditions don't come with visible characteristics --- they don't "look" different from the average kid.
It's hard to diagnose things like ADHD, especially for "high functioning" kids. Those who've managed their issues pretty well -- because they were lucky enough to have astute and involved parents who could go above and beyond 'regular' parenting, using behavioral modification techniques -- find it no longer "works" when the kid hits junior high. There's still a lot of normal restlessness and inattention in the early grade years that can make it even harder to diagnose.
The point I wanted to make was this: it makes no more sense to pooh-pooh the over-stimulation computer-related 'stuff' can have on young kids, any more than giving every restless or inattentive kid a (mis)diagnosis of ADHD. Each child is unique, and there are so many variables in their development, it'd be a mistake to dismiss anything. Or think that just really good parenting is the answer to everything.
As others have already said, there are other meds now. I'm not sure what you mean by "addictive", though.
Anecdotal story about ADHD, but probably common: one of my son's friends in HS was diagnosed as ADHD, and the family tried to avoid meds for the longest time. Once it was clearly interfering with his academic work (and social skills) they finally agreed to meds. That helped him enough to get through HS, but then he decided to wean himself off the meds...to see if he didn't need them any longer.
He came to our house for group air-soft game, decided he didn't need the protective eye gear, climbed on the roof...and was promptly "shot" in the face close to his eye. The kid was frantic and hysterical, acting more like a 5 yr old than an 18 yr old. He just kept yelling call my mom, call my mom...he was hyperventilating, crouched in a fetal position, having a huge panic attack. After he could hear his mom's voice on the phone, he let me inspect his face and eyes (no blood, no apparent wound, couldn't tell if his eyes were red from the BB or crying....
Long story short, I ended up driving him to the ER (with permission from his mom) and the docs told to go home and "rest". Afterward, his mom and I talked, and she sort of "knew" that his disorder had kicked in, because he was off his meds. She did the right thing by not rushing to his side, and encouraged him to "problem solve" with the people and options available. But the kid was a frickin wreck. He's still off meds, and he's still a wreck. Can't hold a job, can't finish a semester of classes, and can barely maintain his friendships. He's an extremely smart, high IQ and bright young man, but now that he's a certain age...his parents can't "force" him to take meds. To date, there's no med he feels comfortable taking, that doesn't make him feel like he's numbing--and losing--- a part of his "personality".
Don't you just love how society never wants to put the blame on people? Oh your child is acting up... not your fault must be ADHD! Oh your child killed the neighbors cat, must be because he has *some other mental diagnosis* - no maybe its just that he's an evil shit.
Sure *some* people do have chemical imbalances that should be treated with medication to optimize their life. However that should never be the first resort. It should be one of the *last* resorts - since drugs have side effects.
Right, Lewk. And you did work for a while in a psychiatric institution to know that "drugs are the last resort"?
Just like there are physical illnesses which demand immediate treatment with drugs, there are also mental illnesses which demand an immediate response with drugs. Or do you think that stuff like the bubonic plague should be treated with, say, a sweat tent first? Just because "drugs are the last resort"?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
You honestly don't have a clue what you wrote here. How do you think we measure something like, say...evil?
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Actions... sometimes people do things because they want to even though they know its wrong. That isn't a mental disease - that's just immoral behavior.
Drugs that alter brain chemistry that have known side effects? Heck if the person is spazzing out and "crazy" sure you can use some drugs. But if you are only basing it on children acting out then before you start fucking with their brain you should start elsewhere.
You just have shown again that you haven't read a single word I wrote. So I'll be nice and recap: Some people need drugs right off the bat and some people don't. However, making broad and sweeping statements like: "Drugs should never be used first!" is highly problematic. You also won't find me recommending any and all kids with ADHD to be drugged right from the start.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
What tests do you do to find out who needs medication right from the start?
Actions aren't a measure of evil or immoral behavior. The fact that the best answer you had was to switch the word evil with immortal should show that you don't understand the depth of the subject you are speaking about, but that surprises no one.
Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 06-11-2012 at 02:55 PM.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
What tests do you run to determine if someone needs a shot of morphium right from the start?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
obsevations (which are usually done before the person arrives at a place of treatment) and our ever expending medical history we have in treating illnesses.
Just about everything, from diseases or disorders, that can cause a person to be delirious is usually treated medically first. You need a baseline in order to guage how to proper procede after that. Not easily to do if they person is violent or thinks everyone is out to get them.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Pediatric protocol has changed since the 80's or 90's, Lewk. Physicians are reluctant to treat with meds first --- even antibiotic use is coming down --- and for good reasons. You make it sound like kids are being prescribed Ritalin or other meds after one visit to the doctor, as a way to treat "acting out" behavior. Where do you come up with this stuff?
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