Being forced to work for someone else. Unconstitutional?

[']['ear]

Aren't you a huge fan of Chavez?

You've got to be kidding me.

Gigantic straw man party, everybody invited!

Back when I had sidewalks I had to shovel (took pride in keeping clear, btw) I also had a lawn. City ordinance required the grass be cut and if you didn't do it, they would send a lawn service over to do it for you and send you the bill. There were also also rules requiring dogs to be leashed and their shit on side walks and in parks be cleaned-up by the owner. There were also noise rules and if your dog was too barky or your stereo too loud, you get a warning then a fine. You also had to store your garbage cans out of sight of the side-walk and street and you couldn't have an abandoned car in front of your house.

I see no problem at all requiring minimum standards of property maintenance and conduct in a community. When you buy property within a city, you sign up for the rules the city - ie the voters who live there - have established. If you don't like it, don't live there or campaign to have them changed. Its idiotic to call it slavery or to point to the 1 little-old-lady too infirm to shovel and too poor to pay for a service and say "see, these rules don't work." If that rare case is a real concern, have a health-based waiver that lets the city (ie the voters) pay for any little old lady's snow removal services. Duh. This is very simple stuff here.

You forget that the Wild West is the optimal society for humans. Think Silverado.

[Enoch the Red]

You've got to be kidding me.

Gigantic straw man party, everybody invited!

Attribute your posts correctly, man!

That you can't see he's mocking one Utopian idea while pushing several others is not my problem.

[']['ear]

Please. Chavez? You sell your soul making comments like that, regardless of the "offense" that precipitated it.

[Being]

Socked it to me?

Please girl. That's so 1980. *headwiggle*

More like late '60s early '70s,

"Sock it to me!" experienced its greatest exposure on Laugh-In (which ran 1968 - 1973) although the phrase had been featured in songs like Aretha Franklin's 1967 "Respect"

[/thread drift]

[GGT]

There have been no thorough responses about how to deal with people who aren't able to if you make it a law that it must be done.

Yes, there were posts about dealing with elderly, infirm, poor who can't shovel snow. Did you read them? Sounds like you're under the impression that little old ladies are getting tickets and fines all over the place, but that's just not true.

The irony is people complaining that its not done voluntarily so should be done by law ... then claiming that all problems will be fixed by neighbours helping out voluntarily.

The reason ordinances were made are probably different for each city and town, and if they're a snow state or not. In the large city here, it came about after absentee landlords and slumlords didn't shovel. Ever. Vacant buildings still had owners, but they could only be "encouraged" to participate in the community with threat of a fine. Sad but true. And some people were inconsiderate (en masse) by shoveling out their car space, but throwing snow in neighbor's sidewalks. Others would throw snow in the street and block in other cars, meaning plows had to keep coming.....

May not mean much in the UK where you don't get much snow, or in a neighborhood that doesn't have sidewalks, but to boros and cities that have limited street parking and heavily used sidewalks---snow removal is an important issue. We even debate whether or not folks can "Reserve" the parking space they shoveled out, with lawn chairs.

[Enoch the Red]

Please. Chavez? You sell your soul making comments like that, regardless of the "offense" that precipitated it.

How is that, exactly?

[Being]

I wonder if people will voluntarily get their cars smog-checked if laws requiring it are repealed? Maybe laws prohibiting spitting on sidewalks should be eliminated too? And why on Earth would we need laws to keep people from double-parking? It's clear these could all be addressed via personal responsibility.

[agamemnus]

Moar strawmen pl0x. It's their cars, and they'd be directly polluting in other people's faces. Double parking laws are for public property ONLY...

If people owned their sidewalks, they could do what they wish to it -- including removing it. If the city owns it, it's the city's responsibility.

It's the government's responsibility to make sure that its cars' carburetor filters work. If they don't work or break, the government cannot suddenly fine mechanic shops for not fixing its cars for free.

[Being]

Easements provide for public use of private property.

[GGT]

If people owned their sidewalks, they could do what they wish to it -- including removing it. If the city owns it, it's the city's responsibility.

I'spose you can look at it that way, if you think it's about public vs private and who's responsible. There's a grey area when privately-owned walkways are open for public use that connect to public thoroughfares. If you think the municipality or state is responsible, then your taxes would go wayyy up. NYC alone has something like 6,000 miles of roads, and most roads have adjacent sidewalks.

We also shovel around our fire hydrants so fire trucks can access them in snow. People could claim it's not their responsibility, and bitch about paying government employees to keep them clear, pay higher taxes, and slower response by the firemen, too.

[Aimless]

Hello, can we invent unmanned plow machines pls?

Also what is this nonsense about "if it's mine i can do whatever the fuck I want with it"??? We don't follow that sort of nonsense reasoning. You can't smoke in your own restaurant. you can't drive without a seatbelt. You can't obstruct the sidewalk system for other people if you want to be able to leave your house without paying a house-leaving toll then you better damned well keep the portion of sidewalk outside your house clear sheesh. now help me by thinking of other examples of not being able to do whatever the hell you want with something just because it's your "property".

[Enoch the Red]

I wonder if people will voluntarily get their cars smog-checked if laws requiring it are repealed?

Why would they?

Maybe laws prohibiting spitting on sidewalks should be eliminated too?

Yes they should. Now you are thinking with your head.

And why on Earth would we need laws to keep people from double-parking? It's clear these could all be addressed via personal responsibility.

Are they double-parking on private property?

[Catgrrl]

Wait, what? Spitting on sidewalks?

[Aimless]

There is no such thing as private property.

[GGT]

Wait, what? Spitting on sidewalks?

Those laws were created a long time ago, when cowboys would spit their chaw on the walkway and ladies' long dresses would drag through phlegm with tobaccy juice. Ew.

[Enoch the Red]

There is no such thing as private property.

Deep man. Deep.

[Aimless]

Deep man. Deep.

Deeper than "i own sidewalk i can fuck with it however i like rar".

but seriously dude, how can anyone own property in the "plot of the planet earth" sense anyway?? it's not fucking ours

[Lewkowski]

There is no such thing as private property.

Ewwww scary.

they who have no property can have no freedom

The absence of property essentially makes everyone slaves to the state.

[Being]

Those laws were created a long time ago, when cowboys would spit their chaw on the walkway and ladies' long dresses would drag through phlegm with tobaccy juice. Ew.

That's not why those laws were made, it's why women's dresses got shorter.

[GGT]

That's not why those laws were made, it's why women's dresses got shorter.

Not before they banned public spitting, or using the spittoon. Ladies couldn't walk in the dirt streets very well, all that mud and horse poop. I thought that's why plank walkways became important to the public.

[Ominous Gamer]

I wonder if people will voluntarily get their cars smog-checked if laws requiring it are repealed?

I know its not a real question, but Florida repealed its smog test laws a few years ago. No one gets tested.

[Being]

I know its not a real question, but Florida repealed its smog test laws a few years ago. No one gets tested.

What was the reasoning for the repeal?

[EyeKhan]

Ewwww scary.



The absence of property essentially makes everyone slaves to the state.

You are a slave. You just don't understand how, yet.

[Dreadnaught]

Aren't you a huge fan of Chavez?

You've got to be kidding me.

Gigantic straw man party, everybody invited!

I didn't fucking say that.

[EyeKhan]

So when did you start swearing? Bitch.

[Ominous Gamer]

What was the reasoning for the repeal?

Program lasted 9 years, air quality didn't change, as in the quality was considered clean enough to make the tests a pointless hassle.

[littlelolligagged]

So when did you start swearing? Bitch.

Probably elementary school, same as every other kid.

[agamemnus]

Probably elementary school, same as every other kid.

Why, I never!

[earthJoker]

I am still a bit amused the fact that people have to shovel side walks by hand.

[Khendraja'aro]

None of those are comparable to compelling octogenarians to partake in manual labour.

Taxes are a payment not an activity and depend upon your personal situation anyway, security checks and insurance are for security and are optional. My grandfather who lost his licence 11 years ago for medical/age related reasons, has been retired for nearly 2 decades and no longer travels doesn't have to really deal with any of those very much yet you think he should be clearing the streets for you?

Which reminds me: Didn't your country have some massive problem with money? To the tune that they reduced spending everywhere?

And you now want this same country to up your taxes further so they can spend money on something you can very well do yourself?

What kind of bizarre logic is that? Didn't your country have to save money?