Obviously.
Obviously.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Force of the response should be a factor too. Like firing 39 shots into a disabled vehicle with 2 unarmed occupants, only to then fire 15 more shots after climbing onto the hood of said car. At some point you have to admit a line was crossed. The $3 million settlement shows that much.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
I don't. Think about how many police officers there are in the country. Thing about their demographics (i.e. their odds of getting shot if they weren't in the police force). I doubt you'll find much of a difference from the general population.
Hope is the denial of reality
I meant compared to police officers in the UK, or here - not compared to your own murder countryI would like a source for that though. I mean, police officers are the ones who are sent to deal with dangerous people as part of their job. And even if the death rate is similar, don't forget their survival rate for being shot at its probably higher considering they are trained, armed, and usually have backup or on the way, and often faster medical assistance.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd13ppp_sum.pdf 477k police officers.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...spikes-in-2014 50 police officers gunned down in 2014.
That's 10.5 per 100,000.
There are about 56 million males between the ages of 18-44 (http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/b...c2010br-03.pdf).
8,000 of them got murdered in 2013: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...eapon_2013.xls
That works out to 14.3 males of that age get murdered per year per 100,000. That numbers falls a bit when we include some police officer females and men over 44. It goes up when you consider the fact that the median police officer is probably closer to 30 than to 44. So yes, you're just as likely to be murdered as a police officer as you are if you were a civilian.
Hope is the denial of reality
Your FBI link says 7,914 adults aged 18+ were killed by firearms in 2013. Not 8000 adult males 18-44. There were 242.75 million 18+ Americans in 2013.
That's 3.26 per 100k. That's before considering how many of those that are killed by firearms do so because of criminal activity they're involved in (eg gang on gang shootings).
F**ked up stats there like 162 infants under 1 are murdered each year.
I believe the number of police officers in this country is even higher. Your first link is looking at local police, and does not seem to include state police. It also does not include federal law enforcement officers, which may also be included on statistics of LEOs killed in a given year. The rough number I have seen is 760,000 law enforcement officers in the United States.
Though that number may be higher. This site seems to put the number at 900,000 sworn LEOs.
Last edited by Enoch the Red; 07-16-2015 at 10:37 PM.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...d_sex_2013.xls
Fair enough. Subtract a fifth of the above ratio (women are 1/5 of the murder victims). That still puts the general population rate of being murdered at higher than that of the police.
You're also assuming that a certain portion of people who become police officers wouldn't join gangs if the police wasn't an option.
Just giving conservative estimates. Obviously with the 900k number, the police have an even smaller chance of being killed.
Hope is the denial of reality
Massaging the stats like that still doesn't put the general population rate higher. Though even still the officers killed in the line of duty statistic is being compared to a general population killed in any circumstances at all statistic, which isn't the same. I'm not sure all murder victims are killed in the line of whatever their work is.
As for whether some who became officers might have been criminals otherwise - not sure what the pertinence to that is whatsoever. Officers are not criminals, and if you think they are equivalent then that betrays a very disturbing mindset.
Stats:
80% of deaths / 50% of population = 5.216 firearms murders per 100k adult male.
20% of deaths / 50% of population = 1.304 per 100k adult female.
50 deaths / 900,000 = 5.555 per 100k officers.
Though 12% of law enforcement officers are female (and some of those killed in the line of duty are female). So multiplying adult male by .88 and adult female by .12 gives a general population average of 4.746 killed at any time at all versus 5.555 killed on the line of duty.
I'd be curious to as to what the proportions are for being wounded or disabled etc too were that to be included, I'd hazard a guess that the general populace who get shot feloniously are more likely to die than the Police who get shot (due to immediate treatment, backup etc) - so the Police who already have more die would logically have far more wounded too.
Last edited by RandBlade; 07-16-2015 at 11:42 PM.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...-and-assaulted
According to statistics collected by the FBI, 76 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2013. Of these, 27 law enforcement officers died as a result of felonious acts, and 49 officers died in accidents. In addition, 49,851 officers were victims of line-of-duty assaults. Comprehensive data tables about these incidents and brief narratives describing the fatal attacks and selected assaults resulting in injury are included in the 2013 edition of Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, released today.
Felonious Deaths
The 27 felonious deaths occurred in 16 states. The number of officers killed as a result of criminal acts in 2013 decreased by 22 when compared with the 49 officers who were feloniously killed in 2012. The five- and 10-year comparisons show a decrease of 21 felonious deaths compared with the 2009 figure (48 officers) and a decrease of 30 deaths compared with 2004 data (57 officers).
Officer Profiles: The average age of the officers who were feloniously killed was 39 years. The victim officers had served in law enforcement for an average of 13 years at the time of the fatal incidents. Twenty-five of the officers were male, and two were female. Twenty-five of the officers were white, and two were black.
Circumstances: Of the 27 officers feloniously killed, six were killed in arrest situations, five were investigating suspicious persons or circumstances, five were ambushed, four were involved in tactical situations, four were answering disturbance calls, and two were conducting traffic pursuits/stops. One was conducting an investigative activity, such as surveillance, a search, or an interview.
Weapons: Offenders used firearms to kill 26 of the 27 victim officers. Of these 26 officers, 18 were slain with handguns, five with rifles, and three with shotguns. One officer was killed with a vehicle used as a weapon.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Also, don't be mentally ill. That increases your odds of getting gunned down by the police exponentially. After all, if you don't do what cops tell you to do the second they want you to do it, you forfeit your rights as a human being, whether you're a danger or not. Anyone who doesn't instantly obey (unless they're female or a middle-aged white male) is a clear threat to the police.
Hope is the denial of reality
So 7.1 per million young black men get killed by Police.
55.5 per million Police Officers get killed feloniously.
Edit: no that is how many got killed by firearms alone. 69 per million got killed feloniously. 69 not 6.9 - the police are 10 times more likely to be murdered on the job than a young black man is to be killed by a cop.
Second edit - I'm very surprised by this statistic.
Last edited by RandBlade; 07-18-2015 at 06:53 PM.
I'm guessing the odds of a fireman dying in a fire is higher than the odds of a young black man being killed by a fireman
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
But I'm guessing more fires are killed by firemen so your point is?
Is your point that 7 deaths per million is an absolute outrage how date it happen, but 70 deaths per million is a perfectly acceptable situation that should these cowardly shoot-first-ask-questions-later cops should expect and put up with?
You aren't doing a very good job reading the statistics. That's 7 deaths per million for the 20-24 African American age group. The 'real' number is closer to 18.6 per million for all African Americans, though I am dubious about that being the 'real' count because I seem to recall the data behind the number of officer related shootings to be not at all comprehensive. I'd be curious about how those numbers were derived in the first place.
No you're not doing a good job of reading it. You need to weighted average, not sum. It's 7.1 per million 20-24 African Americans. It's 5.6 per million 25-35 African Americans and 3.0 per million 35-44 African Americans and 2.9 per million 15-19 (presumably lower than 2.9 for older than 44 age groups).
So the "real" number is closer to 4 per million for all African Americans (and as discussed above 69 per million for Law Enforcement Officers). So a law enforcement officer is more than 17 times more likely to be murdered feloniously on the job than an average African American is to be killed by the "trigger happy cowards" in the Police.
I stand by my stance that one murdered cop is one too many (as is one murdered African American). Close to 70 murdered cops per million per annum is a disgrace.
Esp since all black people are violent criminals who draw police attention, I mean the figure should be like at least 80 per million but thanks to affirmative action they get away with a measly 4 per million
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Btw Loki where did that data come from? I'm fairly sure there is a consensus of sorts that the number of people killed by police has historically been very difficult to estimate accurate because no one really g a f about those deaths.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Who's wanting the figure to go up*? Though indeed many in that 4 per million will be justifiable (sadly) while none of the 69 per million that is patently ignored by you and Loki as an inconvenient truth are justifiable.
* Except Lewk, he doesn't count.
The graphic shows where the data is from.
Hope is the denial of reality
Ah, you are absolutely right. Mea culpa.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/new...e29842051.html
Why did this even go to trial I wonder
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Man you'd think people would not be yelling and kicking at people's doors. Possibly the police were wrong here but it sounds like this guy was threatening, kicked a door, REFUSED TO LEAVE the property. Ultimately if you do stupid and aggressive things it catches up with you. The woman didn't call 911 for no reason.
I'm sorry, you seem to have missed a few bits
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Like he was high, trying to kick in somebodies door and his DNA was on the officers gun?
I find it disgraceful that the officer has been on unpaid suspension for two years without having been convicted of any wrong-doing. Imagine every time a doctor lost a patient that they were put on unpaid suspension for years while its investigated.
No, like the toxicology reports showed no traces of marijuana or any other relevant drug nor indicate that he had consumed any large quantity of alcohol, that he was shot several more times while trying to get away and that an EMT was not allowed to examine him properly or give necessary emergency treatment.
To be determined, and if that had been the case it was not in the presence of the guy that murdered him so it's irrelevant to that decision.trying to kick in somebodies door
Are you for real? How is that particularly damning? He was shot several times, fell on the officer, tried to crawl away and was repeatedly shot again while attempting to do so. How do you NOT get your DNA on someone after falling on them and bleeding all over them? Jesus.and his DNA was on the officers gun?
I don't believe that so long a delay is fair, but I suspect there were reasons for the delay. As for the suspension, in this particular case there was a strong suspicion that the officer had committed a crime or at least acted in such a way that he could not be expected to continue performing his duties either due to being a murderer or due to having lost the trust of the community as well as his superiors. When a doctor kills a patient in such a way that there is a strong suspicion of crime then a doctor can also be suspended. You'd think that it's a little telling when a cop kills a person and gets an unpaid suspension instead of a paid vacation. It suggests that even the cops know something was off in this case.I find it disgraceful that the officer has been on unpaid suspension for two years without having been convicted of any wrong-doing. Imagine every time a doctor lost a patient that they were put on unpaid suspension for years while its investigated.
Last edited by Aimless; 08-07-2015 at 09:16 AM.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
In case you didn't know, the police dept found upon viewing the dashcam video that, regardless of the outcome of a trial to determine whether or not Kerrick had committed murder, Kerrick's use of his gun to kill Ferrell was unlawful or at least in violation of their guidelines. The other officers with Kerrick did not use or even draw their guns.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Its not the suspension I find odd, its the two year unpaid that I do. If I catch a thief red handed at work (and I have done) then the law here says I suspend them on suspicion of gross misconduct, give them notice of a disciplinary meeting at a later date at least a couple of days later and only then if found guilty of gross misconduct after the disciplinary may he be fired. Until then he remains paid on full pay despite having been caught doing that - suspending unpaid is simply not an option.
Is accused of murder, he's not been convicted and may not be.
If an aggressive suspect charges at officers what do you expect them to do? Offer them a cuddle?Are you for real? How is that particularly damning? He was shot several times, fell on the officer, tried to crawl away and was repeatedly shot again while attempting to do so. How do you NOT get your DNA on someone after falling on them and bleeding all over them? Jesus.
If he'd been shot from a distance then he wouldn't have fallen on the officer, that could only happen if he was in close proximity. We await the full facts but it seems you're condemning him as guilty before the trial has completed.
Get back to me once you've seen the video and read the statement from the person who decided to suspend him.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
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