Toyota's Massive Global Recall

[Ominous Gamer]

Just watched my first Toyota damage control commercial. The simple fact that they flat out say "confident Toyota will correct the issues" is a little shocking...

[Being]

Know why the name is Toyota instead of its namesake Toyoda? Three extra strokes of the pen are required to spell Toyoda.

[EyeKhan]

Know why the name is Toyota instead of its namesake Toyoda? Three extra strokes of the pen are required to spell Toyoda.

Toyota always was a model of efficiency. It only makes sense they took it to such a level.

[Ominous Gamer]

That Toyota is getting sued by its own lawyers for withholding or destroying evidence in other lawsuits during the rollover problems is only going to add to Toyota's problems.

Oh man, did I call this one:
House goes after Toyota over whistleblower documents, claiming this

indicates a systematic disregard for the law and routine violation of court discovery orders in litigation. People injured in crashes involving Toyota vehicles may have been injured a second time when Toyota failed to produce relevant evidence in court," Towns wrote.
"Moreover, this also raises very serious questions as to whether Toyota has also withheld substantial, relevant information from NHTSA.

Article also mentions several times of a "Book of Knowledge" (concerning design and testing data) that Toyota appears willing to pay dearly for in order to keep it secret.

This is turning into some soap opera type shit.

[Being]

Oh man, did I call this one:
House goes after Toyota over whistleblower documents, claiming this

Article also mentions several times of a "Book of Knowledge" (concerning design and testing data) that Toyota appears willing to pay dearly for in order to keep it secret.

This is turning into some soap opera type shit.

I see a rebound coming for GMC. We might even see dividends on our tax returns.

[Ominous Gamer]

I see a rebound coming for GMC. We might even see dividends on our tax returns.

I don't know about GM or Chrysler; I do know that Ford is doing great. The big winner however is going to be Kia and Hyundia. I think those were the only 2 to not post a decline in sales last year, Toyota's troubles are just icing on the cake for them.

[Ominous Gamer]

The number reports should be popping up in a day or so, should be interesting to see how the snow storms and Toyota mess combine to alter purchasing trends.

I see a rebound coming for GMC. We might even see dividends on our tax returns.

You mentioned American, and I added Korean; but we both left out Nissan and Honda. Do you think Toyota's problems are going to have a ripple effect againist the other guys sharing Godzilla's home?

[GGT]

GM is recalling 1.3 million cars for some steering problem....oops

[Ominous Gamer]

PR spin on this voluntary recall:

GM blamed the problem on a supplier that is partially owned by Toyota Motor. A GM executive said the system received from the supplier didn't meet requirements for reliability and durability.

Its interesting to see the Cobalt on there, but not the Ion, considering the cars share almost everything.

[Being]

PR spin on this voluntary recall:





Its interesting to see the Cobalt on there, but not the Ion, considering the cars share almost everything.

There went our dividends.

[Ominous Gamer]

Considering all the 3rd parties that have popped up to call out Toyota on its continued denial of the acceration and braking problem being electronic in nature, the following should surprise no one...

At least seven complaints, filed in the last two weeks with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, allege that after the recall service to modify pedals and replace floor mats the cars still surged out of control.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2270669.story

A few complaints:

Spoiler:

“On February 26th, I was driving about 5 mph in a parking area with my son. I put my foot on the brake and I felt the car push forward. I put my other foot on the brake as well. My son said "it’s doing it again, Mom!" I put it in neutral and we both heard the engine wind out like I had pushed the gas pedal to the floor. This obviously means the recall "fix" isn't working! I contacted my dealer and am getting a loaner car. ”

And another complaint from just a few days ago:

“After checking with the New Jersey dealer where I bought the this car 5-1/2 months ago, I was told my vin # was ok for no problem with the gas pedal sticking, but i should go in for the mat/gas pedal problem. I did & was told it was done. On 2/16, i was pulling into a spot at CVS. I took my foot off of the gas pedal and started to put the foot on the brake when the car suddenly flew up forward over the cement curb and into the dirt and bushes which, thank god stopped the car. I will never get back into my 2010 Toyota Camry again. They hauled the car to their dealership and got me a Honda rental. I made an appointment with [name redacted] general mgr.. He told me so far they had not been able to find anything in the car.

I told him I would never drive that car again and my sons had told me no matter what these people said I was not to drive it. I explained along with never being able to drive that car again i would not now purchase another Toyota. He told me they could give me a $17,000 refund leaving me to eat $10,916. On a car i have had for 5 ½ months and had only 2,091 miles on it. I was told to talk to someone at their corporate office in CA and they offered me nothing but a slick “your word against mine” nothing help. I could see the writing on the wall I went out the next day, bought a Ford Fusion and drove away in my new car.”

And yet another:

“On 2/12/10 my 2010 Toyota Camry received an acceleration fix. In addition I was informed a fail-safe computer program was put in. On 2/17/10 as I was entering my parking slot, the car did an unintended sudden acceleration without my foot being on the accelerator. I was pressing the brake. I jammed both feet into the brake. After 3 seconds, as my car was climbing up a snow bank, it stopped. The engine was idling while my gear shift was in drive. This is the second level on the fail-safe system. This means that: "If both accelerator position sensors fail, or if one throttle position sensor fails, the ECM will...return the engine to idle speed. Had the incident happened one minute earlier, I would have been in a high car/pedestrian area and would not have been able to avoid an accident. The whole event took 5-6 seconds before the car suddenly stopped. The fix done by Toyota is not the fix for the acceleration problem. ”

[Ominous Gamer]

The sales reports are in!

Quick note, these figures are compared to last years sales, which as an industry were the worst sales in 20+ sales, so the bar was set pretty damn low. Yet Toyota still managed to do worse this year than last, and you could say that even Honda got pinched considering that Ford, and certain GM brands posted insane gains. Combine this with Toyota's horrible position last month, that only included about a week's worth of initial recall notices, and Toyota's position looks even more horrible.

[Ominous Gamer]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/08/cal...ex.html?hpt=T2

The driver of a Toyota Prius says he was taken on a wild ride Monday after the car's accelerator became stuck, reaching speeds in excess of 90 mph on a winding, hilly portion of a southern California interstate.
It took the California Highway Patrol to bring the car safely to a stop.
The driver, Jim Sikes, said he was traveling east on Interstate 8 outside of the San Diego area when he attempted to pass a slower vehicle.
"I pushed the gas pedal to pass a car, and it just did something kind of funny ... and it just stuck there," he said at a news conference outside a Highway Patrol office. "As I was going, I was trying the brakes ... and it just kept speeding up."
Sikes said he called 911 for help, and dispatchers talked him through instructions on how he might be able to stop the car. But nothing worked.
At one point, Sikes said he reached down to try to pull the accelerator up, but it "stayed right where it was."
Alerted by emergency dispatchers, a California Highway Patrol officer was able to catch up to Sikes' Prius and used the patrol car's public address system to instruct Sikes to apply the brakes and the emergency brake at the same time.
The tactic worked, and the car slowed to about 50 mph. Sikes said he was able to shut off the car, and it rolled to a stop. The responding officer, Todd Neibert, positioned his patrol car in front of the Prius as a precaution to prevent it from moving again.
Toyota recently issued widespread recalls due to problems related to the accelerator pedal in several of its auto models. One theory behind the sticky accelerators is the vehicles' floor mats.
But Sikes said "my mat was perfect. There was nothing wrong with my mat."
Sikes said he took his 2008 Prius into a local Toyota dealership about two weeks ago for service and gave workers there his recall notice. He said he was told his car wasn't on the recall list.
"I'll be back there tomorrow," he said Monday, visibly shaken up.
CHP spokesman Brian Pennings said the ordeal lasted just over 20 minutes.
"We are extremely thankful that there was a safe end to this," Pennings said.
A Toyota spokesman issued a statement Monday night saying the automaker had been notified of the incident.
"Toyota has dispatched a field technical specialist to San Diego to investigate the report and offer assistance," the statement said.

I found the last line kinda of funny, considering Toyota only had 1 laptop (its since increased to 4 this week) in the entire US that can read the black boxes installed in their cars. No other auto company is this proprietary and secretive.

[Echovirus]

Only three more? That's insane. And I've not seen a mention of the other companies, but how many of the black box-reading computers do they have?

[Ominous Gamer]

Ford and Chrysler have an open source system, anyone can read it. GM licenses their system out to Bosch. Toyota however won't release its black box data without a court order.

Not completely the same as a black box but... I know in my Saturn (and Cobalt by relation) I can request a rundown of certain information before I reset my oil sensor. Top speed, average speed, MPG and stuff like that. The Cobalt even allows you display that information on the dashboard. I still have around here somewhere a feed that lists my 121mph on I-4 from the second time I took my car in for its scheduled maintenance. My last trip to Maryland I returned a rented Cobalt with a top speed set at 98mph.

[Ominous Gamer]

I think we may have finally reached Toyota's "OH SHIT" moment.

Toyota admitted to dealers in 2002 that throttle surges were an ECU problem. These documents (via court order) show that Toyota admitted it had an acceleration problem almost 8 years ago, and that it was electronic in nature. Not the floor mat, not the gas pedal. Now combine that with the NHTSA report from 2003 that claimed "Possibly the engine's Electronic Control Module (ECM), or the drive-by-wire throttle system". The same report that Toyota referred to when it claimed a savings of millions by using the floormat distraction.

This is big.

[Dreadnaught]

I thought the whole thing was unraveling as a fraud...

[GGT]

Media covered the man in CA during his 'high speed stuck accelerator'; that was a fraud.

<It's interesting that people shout for more federal regulation / oversight / consumer protections when it comes to the auto industry. But when the same need is apparent in other areas, the mantra becomes "keep gov'ment out of my life!"

we're either schizoid or bi-polar in our expectations?>

[Ominous Gamer]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...e-academy.html
Since Toyota refuses to investigate its ECUs, and the NHTSA can't figure out it if employs any software engineers. NASA and the National Academy of Sciences will step up in an attempt to figure out what the big fuck up is.

I was watching an investigation a few days ago that connected a majority of the accelerator issues to locations where the car passed under major electrical grids. The kind that can light up a fluorescent light blub by simply being placed under the lines. This some what connects to earlier posts I've made about people complaining that their steering can change based on how close their cell phone is to it. Are we narrowing the problem down to missing or cheap shielding?

[EyeKhan]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...e-academy.html
Since Toyota refuses to investigate its ECUs, and the NHTSA can't figure out it if employs any software engineers. NASA and the National Academy of Sciences will step up in an attempt to figure out what the big fuck up is.

I was watching an investigation a few days ago that connected a majority of the accelerator issues to locations where the car passed under major electronical grids. The kind that can light up a fluorescent light blub by simply being placed under the lines. This some what connects to early posts I've made about people complaining that their steering can changed based on how close their cell phone is to it. Are we narrowing the problem down to missing or cheap shielding?

If this does end up being an electronics issue, Toyota is fucked.

[Dreadnaught]

Aren't there other car companies using these kinds of components?

Either way, it's nice to see Ford pouncing the way they are. Good for them.

[CitizenCain]

I thought the whole thing was unraveling as a fraud...

It is.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2010/...ok-fishy-1.php

And even worse, the black box data from the "black box" in Sikes' Prius has been examined... and in turns out that during the period he was suffering from "intentional acceleration"... his car sped up, slowed down and depressed the gas and brake pedals intermittently... almost as if he was driving normally, and tried to lie his way out of a speeding ticket.

Sadly, I doubt Toyota will be able to sue this con-artist (or the gullible US media) for the billions of dollars in damages they're rightly entitled to as a result of this fraudulent fiasco.

I'm also skeptical about OG admitting he may have been wrong and it's not teh evilz corproation's fault after all.

[Ominous Gamer]

Oh fun, its Cain.

I only posted the Sikes article to point out the lack of transparency with Toyota's black boxes...
Considering how long Toyota's problems had been in the media before he jumped in the bandwagon, its pretty stupid to blame him for billions of dollars in damages.

[CitizenCain]

Oh fun, its Cain.

I only posted the Sikes article to point out the lack of transparency with Toyota's black boxes...
Considering how long Toyota's problems had been in the media before he jumped in the bandwagon, its pretty stupid to blame him for billions of dollars in damages.

OK, so how would you have done any better, if you were running the show? Instantly accuse your customers of being liars and frauds? Or, maybe... just maybe, the responsible thing to do is wait until you have all the facts before jumping to any conclusions and adding public relations and libel to your company's problems. (Crazy idea, I know.)

You're really quick to jump on them for not releasing the black box data before they even got a hold of it themselves... but you're also really quick to jump down the throats of Big Media for their knee-jerk (but extremely rapid) responses, so what would you do?

Or is the real issue here that you just hate all corporations, so any excuse is good enough to go around bashing any company in existence? We get it, you're anti-business, and that's very leftie-chic of you. Can we move on to something more interesting yet?

[EyeKhan]

Just for clarification - CC, are you saying you believe all the Toyota recall problems are based on fraud? Or just this idiot?

[CitizenCain]

Just for clarification - CC, are you saying you believe all the Toyota recall problems are based on fraud? Or just this idiot?

More than this idiot, less than all. A few of the other high profile incidents have turned out to be horseshit as well, whereas most remain unexplained (so are probably a result of mechanical/electronic failure).

Of course, having every jackass and moron Prius owner blame everything on the car does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual problem is... seems unfair to let them off the hook for their part in that.

[EyeKhan]

More than this idiot, less than all. A few of the other high profile incidents have turned out to be horseshit as well, whereas most remain unexplained (so are probably a result of mechanical/electronic failure).

Of course, having every jackass and moron Prius owner blame everything on the car does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual problem is... seems unfair to let them off the hook for their part in that.

An intermittent problem that can't be replicated in the lab but has nevertheless killed some people. Its a tough spot for Toyota to be in - and ripe to bursting for fraud.

[Ominous Gamer]

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2010/dot5910.htm

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today announced that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is seeking the maximum civil penalty of $16.375 million against Toyota Motor Corporation for failing to notify the auto safety agency of the dangerous “sticky pedal” defect for at least four months, despite knowing of the potential risk to consumers. Approximately 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. were recalled in late January for the sticky pedal defect. The penalty being sought against Toyota would be the largest civil penalty ever assessed against an auto manufacturer by NHTSA.

Notice the word in bold. Meaning that if the NHTSA does happen to find their golden ticket (or Book of Knowledge) that shows a lack of clarity with current Toyota acceleration woes, thats the largest fine Toyota will be hit with.

[Timbuk2]

Aren't there other car companies using these kinds of components?

Most modern cars do I woulda thought. Any car which has a traction control system, for starters, will have the throttle electronically managed. Drive-by-wire IOW.

Of course, having every jackass and moron Prius owner blame everything on the car does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual problem is... seems unfair to let them off the hook for their part in that.

They may have a point though. The Prius is a shit car; hideously overcomplicated and burdened with trail-blazing technology which was clearly launched to the market with less-than-adequate testing and QA. Mis-guided Green bandwagon profiteering.

[Lor]

Not had the luxury of seeing a Prius up close and personal, however i don't think i'm missing much. Never understood the hype of Hybrid cars anyway, sure they are economical to run in terms of fuel cost/Road Tax but Christ they are fucking ugly. The new CR-Z is probably the most exciting looking Hybrid I've seen to date that is actually heading into production.

Glad i can strike Toyota off my 'To look at' list of future purchases. Ford was getting rather lonely (already owned a Ford fancy something different).

Looked at a Honda Civic Type S yesterday (Might look at the Type R later), didn't have one to test drive unfortunately but i was quite impressed with what i saw. I'll hopefully look at a Audi Audi A3 over the weekend if i dare. It's painfully having to look at a car like the A3 knowing it's bigger, more attractive sister (Audi A5) is near it. If only ....