Sounds like Tsipras may be seeking a rejection of the bailout in a vain attempt to get the troika to back down and give better terms. Sorry but a rejection means Grexit. Though if that is the case I fail to see how Greek banks can remain solvent for another fortnight. I'd expect a major bank run on Monday and surely then it's time for the ECB to say enough is enough.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
He's looking more and more like a spoiled toddler. Equally effective in getting his way, too.
Great line: “When you are driving down the autobahn, and everyone else is driving in the opposite direction, you may think that what you are doing is right, but you are still wrong,” he said.
Last edited by Loki; 06-27-2015 at 02:24 AM.
Hope is the denial of reality
I think we just got the answer to the question; yes, it is inevitable.
The eurogroup has ended it's meeting, the eurogroup-Greece will reconvene now to talk about safe-guarding the rest of the eurozone from the fall out of a Greek default. Greeks are lining up at ATMs in Athens, I doubt very much Greeks banks will re-open on monday.
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Tsipiras's position that the bailout requirements are a "humiliation" and unacceptable so lets have a referendum in ten days - but we run out of money on Tuesday seems completely incomprehensible. They could have said at the start of the month that there'd be a referendum at the end of it - but to say it now is just plain bizarre. How does he think Greek banks (or the Greek state) are going to get through
Ultimately, the guy has no idea how to rule. And the Greek people knew that when they elected him.
Hope is the denial of reality
Absolutely. I'm so fed up of people blaming the Germans or ECB for the fact the Greeks have ran out of money. If the Greeks had any control they'd be spending their own money or find a creditor willing to lend to them. They've burnt every bridge and burnt every creditor. This is the problem with socialists - they always run out of other people's money.
It's not entirely fair to blame Tsipras for the running out of my money. What you can blame him and his sidekick for is for never bothering to learn the rules of the game. Varoufake didn't even know the eurogroup president doesn't need all members to sign off on the closing statements.
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I don't blame Tsipiras alone, clearly his predecessors hold much of the blame too - they were a basket case before he was elected. However they thought they could just impose their will on everyone else because they wanted it, failing to understand that they were the supplicants. As another saying goes: beggars can't be choosers. Greece needs a bailout far more than the creditors need to bailout Greece. When you go bankrupt and the bank comes to an agreement with you and says they're willing to let you continue living in your home so long as you don't retire in your fifties then you don't spit in their face.
I don't know who said this quote first, but it sums the situation up perfectly:
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God, how stupid are the people at CNN excactly? They fall for this crazy idea that the EU Council can save them from default after the eurogroup has established that there is no agreement. Do they really think that those leaders are crazy enough to consider a deal that could lead to them being defeated in their national parliaments?
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Absolute idiots, there is no chance whatsoever that the EU Council would make a deal the ECB has ruled out.
Government pensioners get three votes.
How can you announce a referendum within one week?
"Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt
How can you expect people to answer to this question :How can you announce a referendum within one week?
A document 5 pages long that no lay person can make any sense of.“Greek people are hereby asked to decide whether they accept a draft agreement document submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, at the Eurogroup meeting held on June 25.”
That without taking into account that the draft agreement is exactly what it is; there is no agreement to say yes to on the 5th of July.
And what if the Greek people say they do accept the 'draft agreement', does that mean we're going to have to believe the present Greek government is going to accept that draft as the final agreement which it will faithfully execute despite having advised against it ?
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The patient has died, life support is being turned off today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-euro...e=news_central
No mourners.
That's not really news. Try again once the results of the conference call are known.
I personally would have no words for it if they'd come out with a different result though; there's a bank run going on for real now and there is NO plan in place to restore Greek banks to solvency.
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ECB has frozen ELA at its present level. The way I understand that, it means that Greek banks may not be out of money right now but may very well run out of money in the next days or even hours. That would explain why Varoufakis said he's considering keeping the banks closed on monday and introducing capital controls.
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So Peston over-egged it. Life support is still there - for now - but only just. The only logical thing the Greeks should do now though is a bank run which will take them past the limit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/bu...t-payable.html Time for a Prexit?
Hope is the denial of reality
Appearantly there are so many legal obstacles to holding a referendum in Greece that there is virtually no chance it can be held by next sunday. If it's going to be held at all because one has to doubt the Greek state has de €110m it needs to organise it. And last but not least; for the referendum to be even valid 4 million people have to vote, that is 1 million more than voted for Syriza last time round. So even a boycot of the referendum by the opposition might topple Tsipras.
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http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/i...-2015061199125http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/bu...t-payable.html Time for a Prexit?
Juncker added: “It’s a good thing Norway never joined. A Noexit would mean that they were leaving and not leaving simultaneously, stranding them in quantum uncertainty forever.”
They will miss the IMF payment.
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My sister's mother-in-law has been in Greece the last month, and they expected she'd be there for another two months as a "vacation" with extended family.
She has a fairly generous Greek pension, even tho it was reduced in recent years, but relies more on her US Social Security checks. She used that money (plus help from family) to pay for three months in Greece....in order to help her ailing sister.
What a mess. She may have troubles paying for things in Greece, but getting her back to the US might become the real nightmare.
I hope for her she has got a lot of cash, because I don't think ATM's will be working much longer. I understand that credit cards no longer are accepted. Greek tourist abroad must be in a tight spot too.
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I don't think she had a lot of cash on hand, but used her American credit cards for most purchases.
If anything, she should be in pretty good shape, as she'll have access to a lot of foreign currency. There will probably be shortages in foreign-produced products though. That might include medicine.
Just had a look at Greek opinion polls. The far left, super-nationalists, and neo-Nazis combine for 60-65% of support (up about 6% since the election). Those numbers go up another 6% once you exclude the parties that have no shot of getting 3% in an election.
Last edited by Loki; 06-30-2015 at 07:14 AM.
Hope is the denial of reality
I don't know if her prescriptions were in her baggage for three months....but she only has one kidney and takes a lot of prescribed meds.
She has access to foreign currency in theory but that doesn't mean much if the ATM's are empty. Unlimited drawing rights on nothing is still nothing. Very likely businesses in Greece will stop accepting electronic payment and credit cards (if they haven't stopped doing that already as we speak) which also cuts her off from her currency abroad. However, if she somehow gets cash in her hands then she may very well be able to buy her medication because a lot of Greeks won't be able to buy anything at all.
As for the outcome; I'm a bit torn here. On the one hand I want them to come back with a no, and I want them to fall out of the EU. On the other hand; there is a lot of hardship to be expected if that really comes about. It's not easy to simply say the damage was self-inflicted.
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Where in Greece is she? Any chance of hopping to a neighbouring country to withdraw money there if things get really bad?
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Greece is in default.
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