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Thread: Rational vs. rationalizing voters

  1. #61
    If I were caught masturbating I wouldn't want to talk about it either.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    This post has little common narrative among its sentences, and yet another reason why I find you so perplexing.

    I and others here have been assaulted by Loki et al. for posting what are factual reports on what the GOP is doing. If it had been one of the members on "the left" who had posted the thread on Trump, Loki's behaviour would have been wildly different, as would have yours been.

    Where did I say left-wingers don't have caricatures? It's just hard to see the side fighting for human rights as the silly one, no matter how many anti-union cartoons you post in the silly images thread. I do find it telling that you're posting what is essentially an accusation of poor behaviour on the political left here; if only we behaved, your side would treat us kinder? If only we didn't post all those embarrassingly anti-establishment things Walker is up to, we could have reasonable discourse here? You don't get to ignore the heinous things your side of the aisle commits any more than the Stalinists get to ignore the Holodomor!
    I have no problem with digging into the GOP for being stupid. Would you like me to dig into the Republican stance on immigration, gay marriage, faith-based charitable funding and more?

    But posting a cartoon suggesting that McCain voters are uneducated and saying "Pubbies behave like mustache-twirling caricatures of evil people" unquestionably lowers the grade level of things.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Funny that neither of you chose to engage Minx's thoughts
    Because he's become little more than an apologist for those who share his views, and trying to outLewk Lewk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    I and others here have been assaulted by Loki et al. for posting what are factual reports on what the GOP is doing. If it had been one of the members on "the left" who had posted the thread on Trump, Loki's behaviour would have been wildly different, as would have yours been.
    I find that very amusing seeing that it's you, Khen, Chaloobi, and Minx who are doing most of the flaming here. You seem to find people believing things you don't like as a personal assault on you.

    Coincidentally, I see a thread from Lewk attacking Trump. Can't recall the last time any member of your left-wing clique attacked a left-winger. What it comes down is that your clique believes that anyone who holds right-wing beliefs is either morally or intellectually inferior to you. The only person outside of your clique who does the same is Lewk.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I have no problem with digging into the GOP for being stupid. Would you like me to dig into the Republican stance on immigration, gay marriage, faith-based charitable funding and more?

    But posting a cartoon suggesting that McCain voters are uneducated and saying "Pubbies behave like mustache-twirling caricatures of evil people" unquestionably lowers the grade level of things.
    I do question it! They do behave in a manner that simply cannot be explained by anything other than stupidity and greed.

    Did you see "Captain Planet" as a child? The protagonist had as his foes unnamed corporate bad guys who wanted to pollute seas and so on, for the sake of polluting them. Now these were absurd, childish figures animated for children to enjoy. The sucker punch here is, the GOP has willingly become these people! They have people asking a Nobel laureate how the oil got into Alaska, thinking they've somehow outwitted the "leftist" view on the world! There is a non-insubstantial segment of the GOP that in their heart of hearts believes God YHWH himself will place more oil in the ground when the US needs it.

    These are people who are not only uneducated, they are willfully stupid, and they are governing your nation. And I'm the bad guy for saying this?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Because he's become little more than an apologist for those who share his views
    On occasion I defend you and agree with your statements but for the most part you don't deserve any such kindness

    You seem to find people believing things you don't like as a personal assault on you.
    on my world
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #66
    In contrast to left-wingers who believe the government should tax "rich" people out of nearly all their income, provide just about every good and service a person can need, give unionized workers a blank check when it comes to benefits, tax and regulate corporations to the point where the corporations act "in the public good", and do all this without any negative consequence to the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    On occasion I defend you and agree with your statements but for the most part you don't deserve any such kindness
    Odd that you attack me for pointing out that Chaloobi was wrong (after giving him several chances to correct himself), yet haven't as much as commented on his two posts explicitly flaming me.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Because he's become little more than an apologist for those who share his views, and trying to outLewk Lewk.
    Could you maybe phrase this in a way that the stupids in the audience, such as myself, can get it? Which segment of the population does Minx want raped? That seems to be Lewkowski's main motivation, to have as many people raped as expediently as possible. So help me out here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I find that very amusing seeing that it's you, Khen, Chaloobi, and Minx who are doing most of the flaming here. You seem to find people believing things you don't like as a personal assault on you.

    Coincidentally, I see a thread from Lewk attacking Trump. Can't recall the last time any member of your left-wing clique attacked a left-winger. What it comes down is that your clique believes that anyone who holds right-wing beliefs is either morally or intellectually inferior to you. The only person outside of your clique who does the same is Lewk.
    Um, could this possibly have to do with the fact that there is no left-wing in the US public discourse? We can all laugh at Stalin until the cows come home, but the guy's been dead for sixty years! When we have right-wing jackasses busting unions and hating faggots left and right, where am I to turn to to find left-wing figures to laugh at? South-East Asia?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    And I'm the bad guy for saying this?
    Absolutely. Because if there's truth in your statements above, it is tiny bits and nothing like the whole. I.e. it's pure and simple prejudice.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    In contrast to left-wingers who believe the government should tax "rich" people out of nearly all their income, provide just about every good and service a person can need, give unionized workers a blank check when it comes to benefits, tax and regulate corporations to the point where the corporations act "in the public good", and do all this without any negative consequence to the economy.
    Good job you put rich in air quotes, it certainly separates them from the high-school drop outs you'd wish marrying for economical benefits. You are evoking moral arguments when you have no leg to stand on.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Um, could this possibly have to do with the fact that there is no left-wing in the US public discourse? We can all laugh at Stalin until the cows come home, but the guy's been dead for sixty years! When we have right-wing jackasses busting unions and hating faggots left and right, where am I to turn to to find left-wing figures to laugh at? South-East Asia?
    Odd that I don't see you whining about the left-wing legislature of Massachusetts busting unions. The only reason you don't see a left in the US is because you're well to the left of everyone in the country. This is like a fascist complaining about the lack of right-wingers in the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Good job you put rich in air quotes, it certainly separates them from the high-school drop outs you'd wish marrying for economical benefits. You are evoking moral arguments when you have no leg to stand on.
    Thanks for reinforcing my point. The crazies on the right are bad because they have different beliefs from you. The crazies on the left are just fine because you share their beliefs. It's not surprising that you don't find them to be crazies seeing that only a full-fledged Marxist would be to the left of you.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Absolutely. Because if there's truth in your statements above, it is tiny bits and nothing like the whole. I.e. it's pure and simple prejudice.
    Given how the GOP votes lock-step? It is statement of reality. They hate women, faggots and people darker than a paper bag, and will vote to enforce that.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Odd that I don't see you whining about the left-wing legislature of Massachusetts busting unions. The only reason you don't see a left in the US is because you're well to the left of everyone in the country. This is like a fascist complaining about the lack of right-wingers in the US.
    It is odd, isn't it, that the good God which created Man deigned to give us only 24 hours and seven days to contemplate issues.

    It is not a sign of victory that your nation is so twisted to the right! After all these years, I am still surprised you'd sink to these depths.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Given how the liberals vote lock-step? It is statement of reality. They hate the wealthy, the religious and natural-born citizens, and will vote to enforce that.
    Anything else, Lewk?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Given how the GOP votes lock-step? It is statement of reality. They hate women, faggots and people darker than a paper bag, and will vote to enforce that.
    That must be why there are female, gay, and non-white Republican elected officials. And as much as you're entitled to your own opinions, you're not entitled to your facts. I'd like to see a survey showing that anywhere near 50% of Republicans hate any of the three groups (should be fun to see the figure for women, who make up ~40% of the Republican party).
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Anything else, Lewk?
    Nice.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Nice.
    Oh wait, but the implicit statement I made is a poor one because unlike Lewk, your prejudice is right! The only difference is that his attitudes aren't in line with your opinions on social, political or economic matters and yours are, but hey, that can't be the very definition of prejudice. Because that would mean you're just another acting-out bigot, and you know you're not. And that can't be circular reasoning because that would mean you're just another acting out bigot and you know you're not.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  17. #77
    No, it's left.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    That must be why there are female, gay, and non-white Republican elected officials. And as much as you're entitled to your own opinions, you're not entitled to your facts. I'd like to see a survey showing that anywhere near 50% of Republicans hate any of the three groups (should be fun to see the figure for women, who make up ~40% of the Republican party).
    Um, what surveys are needed when the GOP votes pro-rape, anti-gay and anti-anyone-darker-than-a-paper-bag. I understand that it's financially lucrative to support the GOP, see little Fuzzy there arguing for the party that denies him basic human rights, but are you so dim that you can't see how people'd vote for that which disenfranchises them? You don't have to hate a fag to deny him marriage, you don't have to hate a man to consign him to rape.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Oh wait, but the implicit statement I made is a poor one because unlike Lewk, your prejudice is right!
    It is formed out of GOP voting practices and their rhetoric. I guess that's like hating the nigger for his skin tone.
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  20. #80
    I.E. You have no reason to look for facts to justify your prejudice.

    As for the Republicans denying Fuzzy his rights, go look up how many states have Democratic governors and legislatures and then tell me how many of them allow gay marriage.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  21. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I.E. You have no reason to look for facts to justify your prejudice.
    What?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  22. #82
    "what surveys are needed"

    You can't claim people believe something when you can't be bothered to find some survey supporting that belief.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Odd that you attack me for pointing out that Chaloobi was wrong (after giving him several chances to correct himself), yet haven't as much as commented on his two posts explicitly flaming me.
    Largely because I can understand his anger and frustration at your seemingly deliberate uncharitable interpretations of his posts. Several posters, Chaloobi included, tried to explain that Chaloobi isn't evil. I myself said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    er. this is one of those situations where putting on a different pair of glasses would help you realise the other guy isn't a crook.
    But you couldn't even entertain the notion that Chaloobi isn't evil, that he may in fact be human like the rest of us, that the suggestions in the OP gave him pause and made him wonder about his beliefs/prejudices, etc. Looking back at these posts it's pretty clear we're all talking past one another, misunderstanding each other or not understanding how our posts are received by the other party and therefore reacting inappropriately. For example, you say you "gave him several chances to correct himself", whereas I interpreted your posts as being hostile and disingenuous.

    I found your posts especially aggravating because it looked like you were simply choosing not to understand for uncool reasons. You can probably understand why I'd interpret your posts that way. It's been your trademark for a long time and it's hard to escape an image. I for example have my smug condescending moralizing perch on the highest of all horses

    It's ironic in the context of this discussion that I so gladly attribute these motives to you in order to justify/rationalize my subsequent meanness.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  24. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    "what surveys are needed"

    You can't claim people believe something when you can't be bothered to find some survey supporting that belief.
    What kind of dim-dum science one-oh-one class did they make you take?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Largely because I can understand his anger and frustration at your seemingly deliberate uncharitable interpretations of his posts. Several posters, Chaloobi included, tried to explain that Chaloobi isn't evil. I myself said:
    Ah, blame the victim of abuse for causing it. Got you.

    The only group claiming anyone is evil is your left-wing clique. I did nothing more than point out that Chaloobi was wrong on demonizing the right based on incredibly faulty logic. Apparently, this is bad. Chaloobi's lashing out is understandable, however. Pathetic. Sorry for trying to reason with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    What kind of dim-dum science one-oh-one class did they make you take?
    So you refuse to look for relevant surveys? You prefer holding extremist beliefs without having any evidence to back them up. And you call yourself a scientist?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  26. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Um, what surveys are needed when the GOP votes pro-rape, anti-gay and anti-anyone-darker-than-a-paper-bag. I understand that it's financially lucrative to support the GOP, see little Fuzzy there arguing for the party that denies him basic human rights, but are you so dim that you can't see how people'd vote for that which disenfranchises them? You don't have to hate a fag to deny him marriage, you don't have to hate a man to consign him to rape.
    I'm registered Democrat, but I don't particularly respect party lines when I vote. I have and expect I will continue to vote for Dems, Republicans, and third party or independent candidates. I don't have to argue for a party to argue against a insular troll lashing out against anything unfamiliar.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  27. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    I'm registered Democrat, but I don't particularly respect party lines when I vote. I have and expect I will continue to vote for Dems, Republicans, and third party or independent candidates. I don't have to argue for a party to argue against a insular troll lashing out against anything unfamiliar.
    Again, if I'm some blip on your radar of unfriendliness, why not ignore me? I will keep pointing out how the GOP hates gays, and understandably that notion causes you grief, so if you insist on being non-partisan, isn't it wise to discard my views altogether?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  28. #88
    The less you know, the more you think you know.

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Again, if I'm some blip on your radar of unfriendliness, why not ignore me? I will keep pointing out how the GOP hates gays, and understandably that notion causes you grief, so if you insist on being non-partisan, isn't it wise to discard my views altogether?
    Why? You're wrong. Yesterday I referenced that thread you made about conservatives. You said a lot of things and neither I nor anyone else registered major objections. It was well-written and if it wasn't wholly accurate, well, it did speak some truth. Those elements exist. But you persist in talking as if they're the whole.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The less you know, the more you think you know.
    Instead of turtling away, why not info us? What is the grand plan of the GOP that requires hating on women, gays and darker-than-paper-bags-people?
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

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