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Thread: Oh the Irony

  1. #571
    Oh the Irony.

    Some of these boycotts and protests seem to be taking off. It's a strange thing though, since many BP stations are independently owned and operated, and the gas may or may not come from Bp.....

    BP also owns Arco Aluminum, and that means canned sodas and energy drinks, etc. They also own/sell asphalt paving material, and that means municipal roads, state roads, federal highways, and private driveways.

    Also, millions of retirees, pension funds, and 401-Ks have stock in Bp, and need that dividend. It might sound like a nice sound byte to say they shouldn't spend 10 billion on dividends, but the hard truth is millions rely on that.

    Just like Gulf coast relies on the oil business for their economy and off-shore drilling just as much as they do tourism and fishermen.....


  2. #572
    refineries commonly sell products between brand names, its nearly impossible to boycott BP.

  3. #573
    But but the invisible hand of the free market

    The Internet libertarian movement

    Everyone right of the center in Amurika :/
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  4. #574


    Not sure whether somebody posted this. Only checking this thread intermittently.

  5. #575
    Hey now, they care a little bit about their image. They are dropping $50 million on ad propaganda, before they are even able to stop the damn thing from leaking. While at the same time ignoring the order to pay for the dredging projects

  6. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    But but the invisible hand of the free market
    The invisible hand of the free market is usually around the invisible dick of the free market, stroking it to climax. Ignoring this fact is what causes people to blindly maintain that free markets should have no checks and balances, while at the same time insisting that governments desperately require checks and balances. Not sure how this contradiction is so easily maintained in peoples' minds.

  7. #577
    Kind of like your insistence that you support free markets?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #578
    Yup, as long as there are checks and balances. It's far, far better than any planned economy.

    I've been saying this exact thing as long as I've been posting in CC. The message has never changed.

  9. #579
    By checks and balances, you mean regulations that inevitably end up favoring the largest companies, raise entry costs, and generate corruption and other unwanted side-effects?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #580
    No bias showing there, Loki.

  11. #581
    More footage of BP's destruction and death


  12. #582
    Just a realistic assessment of what most regulations do.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  13. #583
    I'll take your remarkably negative and biased assessment over the true unfettered free market, Mr. Friedman. We have Russia and China as examples of markets run amok. Long live burning rivers!

  14. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Kind of like your insistence that you support free markets?
    Its like with militias, they're not all that sane unless they're well regulated by the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    I'll take your remarkably negative and biased assessment over the true unfettered free market, Mr. Friedman. We have Russia and China as examples of markets run amok. Long live burning rivers!
    Hey, I'm sitting less than a mile from a river that used to burn occasionally. Government regulations ruined that spectacle before I ever got a chance to see it though.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  15. #585
    I'm so sorry. Clearly you would have benefited from the sight, eh?

    That's actually a good example. People who bitch about too much government regulation should not direct their ire at the regulators or those who supported regulations. Their anger should be directed at the executives whose selfish decisions made such regulation necessary. Doubtlessly the same will be true for the oil industry in year to come, as they whine about "unfair and wrongheaded regulations on off-shore drilling." Let's remember who is to blame, OK?

  16. #586
    Machine Could Separate Oil and Water in Gulf Spill

    We all know that oil and water don't mix. A company called EVTN has turned that fact into a business.

    EVTN makes something called a Voraxial Separator. John DiBella, COO of EVTN, says the Voraxial Separator, or perhaps 20 of them, should be deployed on ships in the Gulf of Mexico, in response to the BP oil spill.

    The Voraxial Separater is a machine that comes in several different sizes and can separate large volumes of oil and water, or liquids and solids, at a rapid rate. (Watch video below for further explanation.)

    It can be situated on land, near the shoreline, or out at sea. It is routinely used at refineries and in mining operations. The machine uses centrifugal force to separate the lighter oil from the heavier water. The oil can be collected; the clean water can be returned to the ocean.

    EVTN started out as a high-precision manufacturer building the gyro platforms for the Hubble space telescope. The company invested its profits and developed the Voraxial Separator.

    DiBella claims the device could be far more effective in cleaning up the spill than BP's fleet of skimmers. By his calculations, 20 Voraxial Separators could process more than 10 times the amount of oily water now being processed by more than 90 boats.

    Initially, EVTN submitted all its information to BP and got a form letter response. Now things are looking up; they've gotten a follow-up letter saying BP is evaluating their technology.

    DiBella says that no matter what happens with BP, the company will proceed on its own. "We want to go to New Orleans to demonstrate our technology to the Parish Presidents. We're in the process now of putting a machine on a vessel and deploying it. We want to show our stuff, and show it can work," DiBella says.

    The odd thing, he says, is that BP has already used a Voraxial, on an oil spill in Trinidad. That doesn't seem to have sped up the process. But DiBella is hopeful they will get BP's or the government's attention, saying, "It's a crime what's happening right now out in the Gulf."
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/37559859

  17. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by ']['ear View Post
    I'm so sorry. Clearly you would have benefited from the sight, eh?

    That's actually a good example. People who bitch about too much government regulation should not direct their ire at the regulators or those who supported regulations. Their anger should be directed at the executives whose selfish decisions made such regulation necessary. Doubtlessly the same will be true for the oil industry in year to come, as they whine about "unfair and wrongheaded regulations on off-shore drilling." Let's remember who is to blame, OK?
    The regulations were in place. They weren't enforced. Whose fault is that? The oil industry's? The nefarious free market's?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The regulations were in place. They weren't enforced. Whose fault is that? The oil industry's? The nefarious free market's?
    In part, certainly. And the folks who believed industry would regulate itself and so had regulatory agencies doing nothing for eight years. And good old fashioned Greed. Money talks, yo. Free speech innit?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  19. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    In part, certainly. And the folks who believed industry would regulate itself and so had regulatory agencies doing nothing for eight years. And good old fashioned Greed. Money talks, yo. Free speech innit?
    Riiight, that's the reason no one enforced regulations.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Riiight, that's the reason no one enforced regulations.
    Care to make an actual argument? Pick a regulation you know wasn't enforced and explain why you think it wasn't.
    Last edited by EyeKhan; 06-08-2010 at 11:56 AM.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  21. #591
    Only after you explain why people criticize Israel's human rights violations but no one else's. Tit for tat, free markets, Anal Smith!
    In the future, the Berlin wall will be a mile high, and made of steel. You too will be made to crawl, to lick children's blood from jackboots. There will be no creativity, only productivity. Instead of love there will be fear and distrust, instead of surrender there will be submission. Contact will be replaced with isolation, and joy with shame. Hope will cease to exist as a concept. The Earth will be covered with steel and concrete. There will be an electronic policeman in every head. Your children will be born in chains, live only to serve, and die in anguish and ignorance.
    The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

  22. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessus View Post
    Only after you explain why people criticize Israel's human rights violations but no one else's. Tit for tat, free markets, Anal Smith!
    but but - you guys were always bitching about the US torturing people. Gitmo, and



    wait, Anal Smith?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  23. #593
    If Dread doesn't post tonight, its likely because he had another aneurysm



    Also, a neat little chart
    Spoiler:


    BP, 37 percent
    Topped the chain of command on the Deepwater Horizon rig. Took risks to lower costs. Cut corners on testing cement. Failed to implement safety measures like an acoustic switch. Misled about its ability to prevent spills in deep water. Overruled crew objections on day of explosion. Grossly underestimated the rate of the spill.

    Minerals Management Service, 11 percent
    Long history of cozy relationship with oil and gas industry, including a busy revolving door. A "culture of ethical failure," [PDF] according to the Interior Department's inspector general, including scandals involving sex, drugs, and gifts from regulated corporations. Allowed oil and gas companies to set safety standards and procedures. Cut back number of safety inspections. Regularly granted oil companies exemptions from environmental studies. Top management overruled objections from staff biologists and engineers about safety and environmental impact. Let oil companies evaluate own performance, and even turn in reports written in pencil that MMS staffers would then trace over in pen. Failure to collect billions in royalties from oil companies -- "a jaw-dropping example of bureaucratic bungling," the inspector general says. Read more about MMS corruption and incompetence.

    Barack Obama, 9 percent
    Failed to make sweeping changes across the Interior Department and at the Minerals Management Service specifically, though it was clear from that start of his tenure that the agencies badly needed reform. (He's finally acting now.) Too deferential to BP on estimates of the disaster's scale, on cleanup, and on use of dispersants. Too slow in projecting a "take charge" image and getting cleanup moving. Too slow in using the disaster to call for real reform of our energy system (though he is now finally doing so).

    George Bush & Dick Cheney, 9 percent
    Pushed more, more, more drilling -- offshore, onshore, everywhere. Staffed MMS with industry-friendly cronies and allowed it to become a "candy store" for oil and gas companies. Failed to reform MMS even when corruption scandals erupted. Hacked away at regulatory structure across the board, clearing the way for industry to do what it pleases.

    Congress, 5 percent
    Weak oversight of regulatory agencies like MMS. Failure to require cutting-edge safety measures, such as acoustic switches. Ongoing support, including tax breaks and incentives, for offshore drilling. Insufficient support for alternative sources of energy. Failure to pass effective and meaningful legislation to reform energy system.

    Transocean, 2 percent
    In charge of operation of rig, meaning that failure of any equipment, including blowout prevents, was its responsibility. Rig crew may have missed warning signals before explosion. Has vague emergency procedures.

    Halliburton, 3 percent
    Possible contamination of cement used to seal well at Deepwater Horizon rig. Possible leak of natural gas through cement seal.

    The Rest of Us, 22 percent
    We drive. We fly. We buy gizmos and food shipped long distances. We consume petrochemicals via our clothes, furniture, gadgets, painkillers, cosmetics, magazines, meals. And we don't fight hard enough to change the system.

  24. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    In part, certainly. And the folks who believed industry would regulate itself and so had regulatory agencies doing nothing for eight years. And good old fashioned Greed. Money talks, yo. Free speech innit?
    Don't forget how corrupt the MMS was. Cheney had a hand in that. (Where has he been lately, any press releases on this mess?)

    Obama should have cleaned house sooner. Not sure anyone really knew how bad it was....

  25. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Don't forget how corrupt the MMS was. Cheney had a hand in that. (Where has he been lately, any press releases on this mess?)
    That's what I meant by Greed.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  26. #596
    "Are you fucking happy? Are you fucking happy? The rig's on fire! I told you this was gonna happen."

    This quote also suggest that the decision that resulted in the spill was made the same day the spill happened. Damn government and their unwillingness to enforce regulations during ever working hour!
    Testifying before the Coast Guard and MMS panel last month, Douglas Brown, the chief mechanic on the Deepwater Horizon, said that on the morning of the day that the rig exploded Harrell had a "skirmish" over drilling procedures during a meeting with BP's "company man," well site leader Robert Kaluza. "I remember the company man saying this is how it's going to be," Brown told the panel. As Harrell was leaving the meeting, according to Brown, "He pretty much grumbled, 'I guess that's what we have those pincers for,'" referring to the blowout preventer on the sea floor that is supposed to be the last resort to prevent a leak in the event of an emergency.

  27. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    If Dread doesn't post tonight, its likely because he had another aneurysm

    Not really appropriate, but also not as bad as "throat on neck". Frankly, talking about an ass kicking in a casual interview isn't as bad as declaring that the country's policy is to keep your boot on the throat of someone.

  28. #598
    Oh yeah. Happy World Ocean Day.

    Oh the Irony

  29. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Not really appropriate, but ...
    Wait till the oil reaches your beaches before you decide. Maybe we should dump some at your doorstep to impress upon you what oil is.
    Faith is Hope (see Loki's sig for details)
    If hindsight is 20-20, why is it so often ignored?

  30. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Not really appropriate,
    Understanding your underlying issue

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