China, slavery and US jobs

[Dreadnaught]

There's a difference between a labor union which fights to get their workers bathroom breaks... and a labor union which demands an average of $150,000 a year in compensation for monkey work.

Exactly.

You make it sound as if I interrupted an intricate waltz with a sledgehammer.

The worker's rights issues tie in to the demands for a higher standard of living, and guess which nation has propagandised itself as the modern Xanadu? The labour condition issue leads to environmental issues when they all want four-inch steak wrapped in candied bacon and served with a side of McDee's.

Cup of water in an ocean

Not really -- you can have elevated labor standards, and even a poorer living, without a massive carbon footprint. I'm just talking about labor conditions, though the crony capitalism issue impacts both labor conditions and environmentalism, as wide-scale protests of either can get you in trouble with the powers that be in China.

[Nessus]

Not really -- you can have a low carbon impact living, and even a poorer living, without a massive carbon footprint.

Tautological kitten is tautological?

[Being]

There's a difference between a labor union which fights to get their workers bathroom breaks... and a labor union which demands an average of $150,000 a year in compensation for monkey work.

Exactly.

I see, you want government control over what can be granted through collective bargaining. Fortunately China already has that...now to get that implemented here...

[CitizenCain]

I see, you want government control over what can be granted through collective bargaining.

No.

Common sense and/or mass extermination of the socialists does not require government control.

[EyeKhan]

But I think a better, more developed economy and civil society is what has made working conditions better for the most people over time.

No, it was the labor movement. We'd still have horrible working conditions in the US today if it weren't for the labor movement. Of course we'd have more competitive wages and less re-sourcing to low cost countries too, so . . . . pick your poison.

Actually, no. What got better working conditions was higher per capita income.

Demanded by and fought for by the labor movement.

And after my trip to China, I'm inclined to agree with you. Then again, I'm also inclined to believe that smarter growth is possible than in China, where trying to pressure companies to stop polluting is usually met with a swift beating or jail sentence.

China's working on that and making some progress. What they need is a strong EPA. Thank God for Nixon.

There's a difference between a labor union which fights to get their workers bathroom breaks... and a labor union which demands an average of $150,000 a year in compensation for monkey work.

Here here. And one step further - a labor union that fights for reasonable wages and benefits and against abuse of workers by management is one thing. A labor union that provides what amounts to complete job security by protecting the worst employees, is the most corrosive element for morale, productivity, quality of work and the overall health of a company.

[Dreadnaught]

Tautological kitten is tautological?

Hangover typing. Edited my post, I meant labor conditions.

No, it was the labor movement. We'd still have horrible working conditions in the US today if it weren't for the labor movement. Of course we'd have more competitive wages and less re-sourcing to low cost countries too, so . . . . pick your poison.
Demanded by and fought for by the labor movement.

Wow, you're really drinking the Detroit Kool Aid.

It's interesting how you can say that labor unions influenced workplaces several magnitudes beyond their peak historical enrollment, but ignore other larger social factors.

[EyeKhan]

Hangover typing. Edited my post, I meant labor conditions.

What are you, a drunk?

Wow, you're really drinking the Detroit Kool Aid.

It's interesting how you can say that labor unions influenced workplaces several magnitudes beyond their peak historical enrollment, but ignore other larger social factors.

Labor unions had that effect on every work place because those without unions had to be competitive with those that had them lest their empoyees organize. Why do you think the transplant employees get such good pay and benefits? Because Toyota and Honda don't want the the UAW fucking everything up at their plants. Same thing with salaried employees - as a company's blue collar employees got better pay and benefits, so did the white collars. You don't have to be in a union to benefit from organized labor, silly. And the Detroit cool aid's much less poisonous than the NYC coolaid. That stuff apparently blackens the soul.

[Loki]

Demanded by and fought for by the labor movement.

Good thing wages were increasing long before that movement became powerful. First rule of causal argument: the cause must precede the effect.

[GGT]

...You don't have to be in a union to benefit from organized labor, silly. And the Detroit cool aid's much less poisonous than the NYC coolaid. That stuff apparently blackens the soul.

sshh, don't remind Dread that NYC is owned by Wall Street, catered to by Bloomberg, protected by congress. They call it trickle down economics or Reagonomics. Nowadays, post bust, we call it capitalism propped up by socialism, private gains via public losses.

It's symbiotic, but the ZOMG SSSocialism people get the cameras and media time, to pump up the Tea Partiers. It's all a big party you know, champagne tastes on beer budgets. Kool Aid = government is teh evil but don't you dare touch my government pension!

It's the word WELFARE that gets folks pumped up and ready to roll. Unfortunately, the power players won't admit it's corporate croney-ism or corporate welfare that is killing this country. Capitalism and Freee Markets sounds much better.

[ar81]

No, this is trickle down of losses to subsidize the rich...