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Thread: "Right" to be "Forgotten"

  1. #31
    The ruling isn't DOING anything to public access to the information. It's still there, it's still accessible to anyone with access to a browser, it's just finding it isn't as streamlined. And I'm sorry but I think trying to put roadblocks on the "Information Superhighway" is an ultimately useless endeavor. Just like the constant demands to take down copyright-infringing videos from youtube only for someone to immediately reupload them. I empathize with people feeling uncomfortable about all that information out there, not under their control, but trying to build a lego-technical wall against it is a true act of luddism.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  2. #32
    I value my privacy. I think it's a good thing that someone is challenging the pervasive powers and everlasting memories of "The Worldwide Web", and how much information is cached by the providers/distributors/profiteers. It's not like I have a real choice about using computers or the internet. It's baked in the cake.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    You should read the court ruling. The value of privacy and public access to information is discussed by the judge.
    That says nothing about what I said. People are using the word "privacy" to mean "I don't like that bit". Again it'd be one thing if it was consistent, lets say that everything older than 7 years gets wiped out somehow (not that I think its technically possible) but this isn't consistent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    Khend. He's a lot less explosive when Dread's comments are limited to non-German targets like France.
    Well, I would say, a little less explosive. I still don't get the reason why this topic is German one. It is a EU ruling based on a Spanish person who sued Google.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  5. #35
    I don't think it is a German one, the only reference to Germany I saw is that Dread said he's in Berlin. If I'd said I was in New York City and disagreed with a SCOTUS ruling would that make it a New York state issue rather than an American one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't think it is a German one, the only reference to Germany I saw is that Dread said he's in Berlin. If I'd said I was in New York City and disagreed with a SCOTUS ruling would that make it a New York state issue rather than an American one?
    Reading his post it's clear he's attributing this to what crazy Germans want (in fact, I don't read it as him saying he's actually in Berlin, just trying to be funny about his stereotype of Berlin youth). If mods did any enforcing in this place, I'd find that post very inappropriate. But they don't, so I don't care (I just think his attempt at humour is stupid, but that's a matter of taste I suppose).
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  7. #37
    The OP is so utterly confusing and absurd, it cries out not to be taken seriously. If the OP is what Wraith and LF understand as criticizing Germany, than they surely live in the same alter universe as the OP.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    The OP is so utterly confusing and absurd, it cries out not to be taken seriously. If the OP is what Wraith and LF understand as criticizing Germany, than they surely live in the same alter universe as the OP.
    No, I was addressing Khend's pattern of behavior, which certainly isn't limited to Dread, though most of his ridiculous calls for demodding (which I find particularly objectionable) are. Not all though, I remember him doing it to Rand too.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  9. #39
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    No, I was addressing Khend's pattern of behavior, which certainly isn't limited to Dread, though most of his ridiculous calls for demodding (which I find particularly objectionable) are. Not all though, I remember him doing it to Rand too.
    Then you remember wrongly, Mr. Holier-than-thou. I think that your behaviour towards GGT makes your sentiments just a tad hypocritical. Then again, I'm not even sure what the point of mods on this board even is.

    In short: Spare us your sermons, Mr. Preacher-Man.
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  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    No, I was addressing Khend's pattern of behavior, which certainly isn't limited to Dread, though most of his ridiculous calls for demodding (which I find particularly objectionable) are. Not all though, I remember him doing it to Rand too.
    The only pattern I see, is that he gets into arguments with them (Dread, Rand) more often. But once in a argument he is always as lovely as we know him. His arguments with others (including myself) are about the same IMO. It's just we don't disagree that often.
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  11. #41
    Khen: Why do you always have to make things so personal so quickly? I'll concede that in this case, you're probably not entirely to blame, that Dread probably was knowingly and purposefully nettling you by using Berlin instead of the more logical Paris or Brussels, but it's so easy for him to do because you always go straight to the personal attacks over issues that shouldn't be personal at all. An attack on the German government is just as allowed as the much more frequent attacks on the US government seen around here, and shouldn't generate any stronger of a response. As for removing him from the mod roster, aside from being questionable about just cause, what's the point? Most of the job these days is just removing spammers anyways.
    Last edited by Wraith; 06-02-2014 at 08:22 PM.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Then again, I'm not even sure what the point of mods on this board even is.
    Primarily just removing ad spam nowadays. Keeping the place clean.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    The only pattern I see, is that he gets into arguments with them (Dread, Rand) more often. But once in a argument he is always as lovely as we know him. His arguments with others (including myself) are about the same IMO. It's just we don't disagree that often.
    *sighs*

    I really don't think my writing is hard to understand. The sarcastic comment about how everything US is wrong and everything Germanic is right is a pattern he has with everyone. The only thing particular to Dread *and to a much lesser extent Rand, since they don't argue anywhere near as much* is Khend's constant insistence that no mods should be allowed to engage in substantive discussion and that if they are going to engage in it, they shouldn't be allowed to be mods.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    This is a bit different, Rand.

    Let's put it this way: You're arrested and charged for murdering two babies. The charges turn out to be false and yet, when someone Googles your name, the first result is "Rand charged with heineous crime!" even after some years.

    Not something you want to carry around the rest of your life. There are quite a lot of people out there who think that "charged with a crime" and "convicted of a crime" is equivalent. See those mugshot-blackmail sites in the US for reference: They wouldn't make money if that weren't the case.

    Not to mention: You've just gone through the ringer and now you have to fight several new battles and spend even more money to clear your name. That's a nice sentiment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    As I understand it (I might be wrong) the standard is pretty much the same as with newspapers, i.e. newsworthiness trumps privacy. A politician wanting to cover up a scandal should not be covered by this. This is why I posted I am not unsympathetic rather than that I am sympathetic, since I'm a bit scared it will be abused like the similar copyright removals. It's far from unheard of that perfectly legal material is removed after a single unfounded complaint that isn't checked because the service provider is liable if they don't remove it and it was copyrighted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    It seems to follow the same legal groundwork which determines whether someone's photo may be published or has to be anonymized. At least the wording: "[we will] attempt to balance the privacy rights of the individual with the public’s right to know and distribute information." is pretty much similar to the rules our press runs under (and certain tabloids run afoul of quite often).

    Which in turn means that something like an article about a teenager shoplifting would fall under the right to be forgotten, while the participants of the NSU process would have a much harder time arguing their case.

    Flixy highlights a very good point, but I'd like to take it a bit deeper: how and why are certain organizations (IE newspapers) effectively being held to a lower standard?

    Basically, a newspaper is given free-reign to report on what it wants as long as it's not libelous or slanderous. They can report on someone's criminal charges, debts, etc. and choose not to run a follow-up article if the person is proved innocent or pays-off their debt. They generally don't have to remove that content.

    But a search engine has to now make the call of whether particular links are legally appropriate and accurate. In other words, this seems like journalists and media interests are being thrown a bone based on the subtleties of how media works, but technology is being held to a higher standard.

    ***

    I actually didn't mean for this/me to become a distraction, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't think it is a German one, the only reference to Germany I saw is that Dread said he's in Berlin. If I'd said I was in New York City and disagreed with a SCOTUS ruling would that make it a New York state issue rather than an American one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Reading his post it's clear he's attributing this to what crazy Germans want (in fact, I don't read it as him saying he's actually in Berlin, just trying to be funny about his stereotype of Berlin youth). If mods did any enforcing in this place, I'd find that post very inappropriate. But they don't, so I don't care (I just think his attempt at humour is stupid, but that's a matter of taste I suppose).
    Quote Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
    The OP is so utterly confusing and absurd, it cries out not to be taken seriously. If the OP is what Wraith and LF understand as criticizing Germany, than they surely live in the same alter universe as the OP.
    It seems the only person who applied Occam's razor to this was Rand, who loosely pointed out that I may have been caricaturing an actual experience with what someone called "Berlin youth". Though I guess I was short on details and high on hyperbole. Then again, I've found that many Berlin youth are also short on details and high on hyperbole. Though this issue is obviously much larger than anything specific to Germany, and it's ridiculous to believe that I see this as somehow just a German issue.
    Last edited by Dreadnaught; 06-03-2014 at 01:49 PM.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Basically, a newspaper is given free-reign to report on what it wants as long as it's not libelous or slanderous. They can report on someone's criminal charges, debts, etc. and choose not to run a follow-up article if the person is proved innocent or pays-off their debt. They generally don't have to remove that content.
    while retractions are generally used before ligation, and all news sources are under the threat of various lawsuits, why should search engines profit endlessly off of irrelevant, damaging and/or incorrect information and not be held to any standard? Why are the rights/profits of a search engine more important than a citizen's?

    But a search engine has to now make the call of whether particular links are legally appropriate and accurate.
    All search engines, nearly everywhere, are already forced to do this. Try searching for child porn on google, or remember how many torrent search engines have been forced to shut down, or even ICEd.
    What this ruling doesn't do is force the search engine to make a call about anything until its brought to their attention. No blacklist, no unattended filtering.

    Come on Dread, you're not this stupid, you're acting like you don't understand how the internet works.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 06-03-2014 at 03:00 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    It seems the only person who applied Occam's razor to this was Rand, who loosely pointed out that I may have been caricaturing an actual experience with what someone called "Berlin youth". Though I guess I was short on details and high on hyperbole. Then again, I've found that many Berlin youth are also short on details and high on hyperbole. Though this issue is obviously much larger than anything specific to Germany, and it's ridiculous to believe that I see this as somehow just a German issue.
    Are you on drugs?
    "Wer Visionen hat, sollte zum Arzt gehen." - Helmut Schmidt

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    while retractions are generally used before ligation, and all news sources are under the threat of various lawsuits, why should search engines profit endlessly off of irrelevant, damaging and/or incorrect information and not be held to any standard?
    This has nothing to do with inaccurate info, its about accurate info people dislike. Inaccurate info is already illegal.
    Why are the rights/profits of a search engine more important than a citizen's?
    Why should the rights of one citizen supercede that of others? Why should a landlord who has had problems with his property he lets be able to expunge such references when potential tenants search for info? Should renters have less rights to know the facts about where they could live?

    Free speech, protected by your First Amendment is being ripped apart in this country and continent.
    All search engines, nearly everywhere, are already forced to do this. Try searching for child porn on google, or remember how many torrent search engines have been forced to shut down, or even ICEd.
    What this ruling doesn't do is force the search engine to make a call about anything until its brought to their attention. No blacklist, no unattended filtering.

    Come on Dread, you're not this stupid, you're acting like you don't understand how the internet works.
    Wrong analogy. Child porn is illegal, dodgy torrents are illegal, true and accurate info is not illegal. Why should Google be banned from reporting a landlord's history with his property he lets but a newspaper or website are allowed to report it? Google should have the same standard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #48
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Flixy highlights a very good point, but I'd like to take it a bit deeper: how and why are certain organizations (IE newspapers) effectively being held to a lower standard?

    Basically, a newspaper is given free-reign to report on what it wants as long as it's not libelous or slanderous. They can report on someone's criminal charges, debts, etc. and choose not to run a follow-up article if the person is proved innocent or pays-off their debt. They generally don't have to remove that content.

    But a search engine has to now make the call of whether particular links are legally appropriate and accurate. In other words, this seems like journalists and media interests are being thrown a bone based on the subtleties of how media works, but technology is being held to a higher standard.
    Newspapers are effectively held to a higher standard, since they can be convicted for libel/slander but also privacy breach, I'm pretty sure. For example, they are serious about portrait rights. Whereas a search engine only has to remove a link that's been reported - they don't even have to be proactive. As OG said, they make exactly the same calls already when it comes to the dozens of reasons other links are removed. Copyright claims, child pornography, those are all already removed upon notification, so it's obviously not impossible or even hard.
    It seems the only person who applied Occam's razor to this was Rand, who loosely pointed out that I may have been caricaturing an actual experience with what someone called "Berlin youth". Though I guess I was short on details and high on hyperbole. Then again, I've found that many Berlin youth are also short on details and high on hyperbole. Though this issue is obviously much larger than anything specific to Germany, and it's ridiculous to believe that I see this as somehow just a German issue.
    Well, with Occam's razor, the most likely option between you actually being in Berlin surrounded by youth killing in the streets, or behind your laptop writing a funny meant caricature of your stereotype of Berlin youth, I obviously went for the latter, so I think I applied it correctly. Keep in mind you're not the only one who's been to Berlin
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    This has nothing to do with inaccurate info, its about accurate info people dislike. Inaccurate info is already illegal.
    Why should the rights of one citizen supercede that of others? Why should a landlord who has had problems with his property he lets be able to expunge such references when potential tenants search for info? Should renters have less rights to know the facts about where they could live?

    Free speech, protected by your First Amendment is being ripped apart in this country and continent.
    Why should rights of one citizen supersede that of others? Well, interesting question - but a really useless one, since the question itself implies the rights of two citizens conflict in this instance and that exercising one right impedes the other. Which means that one will always supersede the others, it's just you prefer a different right to supersede another right. Which is fair enough, but don't twist it like only one side has rights. The whole point is a balancing of rights.
    Wrong analogy. Child porn is illegal, dodgy torrents are illegal, true and accurate info is not illegal. Why should Google be banned from reporting a landlord's history with his property he lets but a newspaper or website are allowed to report it? Google should have the same standard.
    It is not that bad an analogy, since breaching someone's privacy is illegal.

    Also I think you're misunderstanding the mechanics of this (or I am, in which case please do correct me), but Google would not be banned in the examples you make. From what I've read, Google, and other websites, are basically subject to the same privacy rules as newspapers. Since a landlord engaged in commerce as a landlord, his actions related to that are relevant to his customers, and therefore not restricted by privacy (similar to why celebrities have less right to privacy since they chose to be in the public eye). Same rules apply, so I don't know why you keep bringing up that newspapers would be allowed to do things Google wouldn't be allowed to, they'd have the same standard. Newspapers are also not allowed to report private information about individuals when it has no news value. My only fear is that it will be abused, and it's, well, impractical to let each case come before courts. The same problem has come up with copyrighted material, it's happened several times that media companies have content removed they don't like, by claiming they have copyright of it (while they don't). In the copyright cases, in theory they can be sued and are subject to big penalties for doing so, in practice not so much. But I don't think a similar rule would be very useful in this case, since copyright status is pretty much black and white (you either have copyright or you don't), but privacy vs news value is a grey area and I'm not that comfortable with, say, imposing fines on people who made a wrong claim to have private information removed when they did so in good faith, but were just on the wrong side of the line.


    And hey, since we apparently like to give really obvious examples to our own cause, if a website posts your name, address, birthday, phone number, and everything, without your permission, you think it's an assault on free speech to have that removed? It's true and accurate information, so completely legal. Let's face it, if I posted your real name and address on these forums, you'd remove them immediately. Yes I know this example doesn't magically make the privacy proponents 100% right, but similary your example doesn't suddenly make your argument true.

    Edit: Apologies, it appears I am mistaken, the Spanish suit did not order the newspaper to remove the article, so standards apparently differ. However, I can't really tell if that's because the standards are different or because the item might have been newsworthy at the time but isn't now, hence privacy wins this time. The phrasing of "inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant, or excessive in relation to the purposes for which they were processed" seems to imply the latter, so standards might be the same... or not.

    Edit #2: upon further reading, yes, standards are different. Apparently because Google previously opted out of being classed as media themselves, legally. Which removes journalism protections. Okay, I think we can add that to my concerns about this ruling, though this ruling also states that public interest can trump privacy. So the examples you mentioned would likely not be affected, but that's assuming Google actually checks each request rather than rubber stamping them (as it appears to do when it comes to copyright claims).

    Fairly good article (even if it is the Guardian ): http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...ral-shibboleth considering most of us discussing it here don't really seem to know the actual matter very well.
    Last edited by Flixy; 06-03-2014 at 10:45 PM.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Inaccurate info is already illegal.
    come on now, you have to know this is a stupid thing to believe.
    No, inaccurate info is not illegal. I can post right now that you dread and lewk are taking part in a 3 way love affair, and the only way you're going to make that illegal is if you prove malice on my end. Thats after you dump a good bit of coin to do so. If incorrect information was illegal every gamer thats mutter a word about HL3 would be in jail by now. If inaccurate info was illegal Fox News would have got its ass handled to itself when it defended the right to lie in front of the Supreme Court.

    Please read the thread, we've already gone over this.
    Why should the rights of one citizen supercede that of others? Why should a landlord who has had problems with his property he lets be able to expunge such references when potential tenants search for info? Should renters have less rights to know the facts about where they could live?
    again, your inability to read the ruling comes up. the judge talks about certain rights being more important than other rights. not the rights of certain people or entities being more important than other people or entities.
    This ruling puts the right of privacy over the right to profit off of someone else.

    dodgy torrents are illegal
    who said anything about dodgy torrents? I agree that hosting copyrighted torrents is asking for a world of pain, but search engines don't host. They link to other links. These search engines already censor themselves, even thepiratebay has admitted to it. Thats the point you totally just missed, that there are certain things that search engines aren't allowed to profit from, and this ruling made it so regular people can include themselves in that list if their unique scenario allows it to be so.

    true and accurate info is not illegal.
    tell that to Snowden (but first lets see you misinterpret it and derail this thread even more)
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 06-04-2014 at 03:28 PM.
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  20. #50
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Also, I wanted to give an actually real example in this thread of the only friend I know who'd actually benefit from this right now and would want to use it. Basically, he and his ex once made a sex tape that was somehow (we have suspicions how, but no proof) put on the internet. With his real name attached, mirrored to god knows how many sites. Since they were both adults, the actual film is not illegal (lucky too, since otherwise he'd be in legal trouble himself for making it in the first place). But I think everybody here can understand why he'd want to delete google links to that place. He did delete his facebook etc., but you can't remove stuff you didn't upload from other sites right now. This process would at least help him.

    Oh, and keep in mind that in many cases private information is leaked/not properly secured/etc., so it's not even necessarily your fault that all your private information is spread over the web.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  21. #51
    Hey idiots, do you guys keep every aspect of your "private" life completely private from everyone at all times or do you always tell everyone everything about what you do in "private"? Which is it? Answer me now.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  22. #52
    I don't keep every aspect of my "private" life private, no. But if it's something I don't want others to know than yeah, I keep it to myself. And if, sometime in the future, something I've said on here gets linked back to who I am then, I've got no one but myself to blame and I'm just going to have to live with the consequences. If I march in the SF Pride Parade and a photo of my gets snapped and is later used to embarrass me thirty years down the road, well, that's what is and ought to be expected from being out in public, participating in a public event, whose very purpose is to be as visible and unforgettable as possible. It's not something I have any right to try and have scrubbed from the internet. My idea of what is "private" is apparently massively less expansive than ideas held by a number of other posters on here. I think I am right and should be right and y'all are wrong. I further think that technology and continued development in the future is going to be very much on my conception of things being more or less inevitable.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  23. #53
    My point was only that "privacy" isn't all-or-nothing.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    My point was only that "privacy" isn't all-or-nothing.
    No it's not. Of course, information, whether it's accurate or not, being accessible isn't an actionable disturbance of privacy either. I can't help but see a web-search's returns as being something akin to gossip. Potentially hurtful. Definitely long-lasting. Fairly unavoidable. But not something you can or really should be able to control, either.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Also, I wanted to give an actually real example in this thread of the only friend I know who'd actually benefit from this right now and would want to use it. Basically, he and his ex once made a sex tape that was somehow (we have suspicions how, but no proof) put on the internet. With his real name attached, mirrored to god knows how many sites. Since they were both adults, the actual film is not illegal (lucky too, since otherwise he'd be in legal trouble himself for making it in the first place). But I think everybody here can understand why he'd want to delete google links to that place. He did delete his facebook etc., but you can't remove stuff you didn't upload from other sites right now. This process would at least help him.

    Oh, and keep in mind that in many cases private information is leaked/not properly secured/etc., so it's not even necessarily your fault that all your private information is spread over the web.
    Wait, if the film isn't illegal why would he be in legal trouble for making the film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Newspapers are effectively held to a higher standard, since they can be convicted for libel/slander but also privacy breach, I'm pretty sure. For example, they are serious about portrait rights. Whereas a search engine only has to remove a link that's been reported - they don't even have to be proactive. As OG said, they make exactly the same calls already when it comes to the dozens of reasons other links are removed. Copyright claims, child pornography, those are all already removed upon notification, so it's obviously not impossible or even hard.
    So, content creators are held to a higher standard of accuracy but a lower standard for what they can publish.

    EDIT: Okay, I see you also saw this later and also find this weird.

    Well, with Occam's razor, the most likely option between you actually being in Berlin surrounded by youth killing in the streets, or behind your laptop writing a funny meant caricature of your stereotype of Berlin youth, I obviously went for the latter, so I think I applied it correctly. Keep in mind you're not the only one who's been to Berlin
    I think you chose between two of the least likely options.

  26. #56
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Wait, if the film isn't illegal why would he be in legal trouble for making the film?
    "otherwise"



    So, content creators are held to a higher standard of accuracy but a lower standard for what they can publish.

    EDIT: Okay, I see you also saw this later and also find this weird.
    Yeah, I would be fine with the same standards, but it being illegal to link to legal content is dodgy if you ask me.

    I think you chose between two of the least likely options.
    I asked my Berlin friends, there were no parties in the street (well no more than usual ) nor mass murders Maybe I know the wrong (or actually, right) people there :. What were your options?
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  27. #57
    This morning the BBC received the following notification from Google:

    Notice of removal from Google Search: we regret to inform you that we are no longer able to show the following pages from your website in response to certain searches on European versions of Google:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/thereporters/ robertpeston/2007/10/merrills_mess.html

    What it means is that a blog I wrote in 2007 will no longer be findable when searching on Google in Europe.

    Which means that to all intents and purposes the article has been removed from the public record, given that Google is the route to information and stories for most people.

    So why has Google killed this example of my journalism?

    Well it has responded to someone exercising his or her new "right to be forgotten", following a ruling in May by the European Court of Justice that Google must delete "inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant" data from its results when a member of the public requests it.

    Track record The ruling stemmed from a case brought by Mario Costeja González after he failed to secure the deletion of a 1998 auction notice of his repossessed home that was reported in a Spanish newspaper.

    Now in my blog, only one individual is named. He is Stan O'Neal, the former boss of the investment bank Merrill Lynch.

    My column describes how O'Neal was forced out of Merrill after the investment bank suffered colossal losses on reckless investments it had made.

    Is the data in it "inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant"?

    Hmmm.

    Most people would argue that it is highly relevant for the track record, good or bad, of a business leader to remain on the public record - especially someone widely seen as having played an important role in the worst financial crisis in living memory (Merrill went to the brink of collapse the following year, and was rescued by Bank of America).

    Public interest So there is an argument that in removing the blog, Google is confirming the fears of many in the industry that the "right to be forgotten" will be abused to curb freedom of expression and to suppress legitimate journalism that is in the public interest.

    To be fair to Google, it opposed the European court ruling.

    But its implementation of it looks odd, perhaps clumsy.

    Maybe I am a victim of teething problems. It is only a few days since the ruling has been implemented - and Google tells me that since then it has received a staggering 50,000 requests for articles to be removed from European searches.

    It has hired what it calls "an army of para legals" to process these requests.

    I asked Google if I can appeal against the casting of my article into the oblivion of unsearchable internet data.

    Google is getting back to me.

    PS Although the BBC has had the notice from Google that my article will not show up in some searches, it doesn't appear to have implemented this yet.

    UPDATE 22:50

    My blog remains findable when you search Stan O'Neal. So I am beginning to wonder whether it really was him who requested to be forgotten.

    The implication is that oblivion was requested not by anyone who appears in the blog itself (O'Neal is the only person I mention in my column) but by someone named in the comments written by readers underneath the blog.

    Google won't tell me, one way or another.

    It is all a bit odd.
    Source

  28. #58
    Probably should have used this one instead:

    On Wednesday, the BBC, the Daily Mail, the Guardian and other British news outlets received notice from Google that some of their content was being removed from search results on some European versions of the search engine.

    The purge is the result of a recent decision by the European Court of Justice requiring the search engine to remove “inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant” personal information from search results upon user request, even if the information is legally available elsewhere. The court said such removal requests must be balanced against the best interest of the public. Exception: information of scientific or historic value.

    The BBC got a note from Google saying a 2007 blog post written by its economics editor, Robert Peston, will be removed:
    Notice of removal from Google Search: we regret to inform you that we are no longer able to show the following pages from your website in response to certain searches on European versions of Google.

    Google didn’t say who requested the post be removed or why, leaving Peston to wonder whether his post about about former Merrill Lynch chief Stan O’Neal was “inadequate, irrelevant or no longer relevant” — the three reasons search results can be removed.

    Peston’s 2007 blog post said O’Neal was ousted from the investment bank after it suffered major losses on reckless investments.

    “Most people would argue that it is highly relevant for the track record, good or bad, of a business leader to remain on the public record, especially someone widely seen as having played an important role in the worst financial crisis in living memory,” Peston wrote in an article criticizing the removal of his story. O’Neal could have made the request to remove the blog entry — or the request could have come from someone who commented on the post, Peston noted.

    “So there is an argument that in removing the blog, Google is confirming the fears of many in the industry that the ‘right to be forgotten’ will be abused to curb freedom of expression and to suppress legitimate journalism that is in the public interest,” Peston said.

    In fact, even though stories are removed from search results, they still exist online and can be found, for example, if they are hyperlinked in other stories. “The strange aspect of the ruling is all the content is still there: if you click the links in this article, you can read all the ‘disappeared’ stories on this site,” James Ball wrote in the Guardian.

    Other stories have also been yanked. Britain’s Daily Mail reported removal by Google of articles about an airline accused of racism by a Muslim job applicant, a couple caught having sex on a train and a Scottish soccer referee who lied about awarding a penalty kick in a 2010.

    The Guardian also reported that articles about the Scottish referee were removed, along with a 2011 piece on French office workers making Post-it art, a 2002 piece about a solicitor facing a fraud trial and an index of an entire week of pieces by Guardian media commentator Roy Greenslade.

    “No one has suggested the stories weren’t true, fair or accurate. But still they are made hard for anyone to find,” Ball wrote.

    Google appears to be narrowly construing removal requests, yanking only results for searches of a specific name. “You can still find a vanished Dougie McDonald page if you search ‘Scottish referee who lied’; it only disappears when you add his name to the search,” Ball wrote.

    A warning now appears for some searches on European Google that results may be restricted. Also, Google itself provides a workaround.

    “If you go to the Google homepage, and look in the bottom right-hand corner, you’ll see a link saying ‘Use Google.com.’ Do that – or switch to another search engine, such as DuckDuckGo, which has no EU footprint and also doesn’t track cookies – and for now, you’ll see the full unfiltered results,” Ball wrote. (Note: Reporters in the United States using unrestricted American Google can’t test this.)

    Ball said there could be a case for removing, for example, a story of petty crime committed in one’s youth if it made it hard for an offender to find a job later. But “such editorial calls surely belong with publishers, not Google,” he wrote.

    Further: stories that “raise serious political, moral or ethical questions – tax avoidance, for example … should not be allowed to disappear … The ruling has created a stopwatch on free expression – our journalism can be found only until someone asks for it to be hidden,” he wrote.

    This is only the beginning. Google said it has received more than 50,000 requests for removal.
    Source

  29. #59
    I think it's apropos to quote my initial judgement from a bit earlier in the thread.

    The ruling isn't DOING anything to public access to the information. It's still there, it's still accessible to anyone with access to a browser, it's just finding it isn't as streamlined. And I'm sorry but I think trying to put roadblocks on the "Information Superhighway" is an ultimately useless endeavor. Just like the constant demands to take down copyright-infringing videos from youtube only for someone to immediately reupload them. I empathize with people feeling uncomfortable about all that information out there, not under their control, but trying to build a lego-technical wall against it is a true act of luddism.
    This was luddism. People trying (badly) to break a machine they don't understand because they're afraid of its workings. Technology has and is going to continue to change society. Adapt, don't fling feces like a howler monkey.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  30. #60
    Public figures like this will learn soon enough that the ruling is going to help them very little. The Streisand effect takes this leaps and bounds past being a simple game of whack a mole.

    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Stan%20O'Neal
    Every result is negative, and for public figures the Wiki article is almost always first, and those people love controversy.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

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