And it's got significantly worse and more accepted since Johnson.
Yes, Starmer isn't doing well at all. The Labour continues to be a complete mess. They should disband the whole thing and split into two separate parties. Only a centre-right Labour party will win an election, and I can't see that happening.
Oh come off it, nothing has gotten worse from Blair's time. He lied while taking us to war, lied while taking million pound donations and changing laws to suit his donors, lied while selling peerages . . . just because his politics suited you better than Johnson's doesn't mean that the piddly crap alleged against Boris is worse than the lies Blair engaged in.
What lie that Boris has done comes even close to taking us to war on lies?
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Blair's politics don't fit me better at all. I've always voted Conservative (up until the last election.)
Johnson's politics generally sit with me OK. He didn't even think we should leave the EU, so we share some common ground there. I honestly don't believe he wanted to leave the EU. He only chose that side at the last minute because he thought it would be better for his career. He's a smart man and he was right.
On the scale of lies told, Blair's is certainly bigger. On frequency, only Trump can hold a candle to Johnson.
You seem to think that comparing one against another is important to me. It's not. I don't care what someone else did in the past. I just want honest, decent roles models for our children leading the country.
Since you've magnified your disappointment with Brexit to be the be-all and end-all (or so it seems to me) you seem to prefer Blair's politics to Johnson's, purely because of Brexit.
I want good, competent PMs running the country, they don't need to be role models. Boris checks that box. He's a normal person, not a role model, that's fine. He doesn't tell outright lies, any comparison with Trump who outright lied through his teeth - or von der Leyen, Macron or others who have lied through theirs too is purely mendacious. Most of the so-called "lies" that Boris supposedly said are simply differences of opinion.
I see no reason to believe Johnson didn't want to leave the EU. I think he chose to leave at the last minute as that's when the negotiations ended and the facts were before us that Cameron's renegotiation had dismally failed. I changed my opinion from Remain to Leave after Boris and I know others who did too, the failure of Cameron's renegotiations was the final straw for a lot of people that showed the EU was beyond meaningful reform. He was a smart man and right to back Brexit which is going great too under his stewardship.
If you really think that Boris is a frequent liar could I ask you to name a handful of lies that have bothered you - that are not simply a difference of opinion or aspirations unable to be met?
Please don't confuse me with others on this board when it comes to Brexit. I voted to remain and disliked the leave campaigns, but it's not the be all and end all. I've never claimed otherwise and have always thought and continue to that we'll do just fine outside.
I want it to be a success and I'm willing to embrace the principles on which it was fought and won i.e. sovereignty.
Going through Johnson's history of lies will bring no benefit to this discussion whatsoever, so I'll politely decline.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Couldn't they just continue to view people with "Irish accents" with racist suspicion? Sad. Mainstream paper too smh.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
This Indian variant thing. Looks like we delayed putting them on the red travel list because Johnson was planning an all important trade trip (which was subsequently cancelled).
If this turns out to be yet another fuck up I swear to Jesus, Joseph, Mary and the wee donkey I'm going to put my head through a fucking door.
Don't worry, it'll mostly only affect brown people in London, primarily the undocumented.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Or just treat criminals as criminals.
I wouldn't go as far as Parris, I see no harm in having sites but anyone who breaks the law and parks on other people's property without invitation should be dealt with as the criminals they are.
I think you'll find that the 'brown people' in Britain have been offered a vaccine, at rates not matched by other countries. Though that stick is so far up your arse you'd rather pretend that liars like von der Leyen claiming that the UK isn't any further ahead and the EU has caught up is correct.
The Indian variant like any variant will primarily affect antivaxxers unfortunately, but the vaccine should continue to be offered and surged to be offered to any communities that are at risk.
Just remembered this:
Twitter Link
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Cummings live:
Greg Clark appears to be a good interrogator so far.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Its very interesting so far, just not for the reasons the media was expecting.
Clark and Hunt are very good in their current roles.
Surprisingly clear exoneration of Sunak, searing indictment of Hancock's conduct that involves at least one other cabinet official. Will have to get testimony from the cabinet secretary in question, at the very least.
Twitter Link
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
None of what Cummings has said today is a surprise. I've suspected such chaos and callousness from Johnson and his cabinet since the beginning of all of this, and the sooner they are gone and condemned as an awful historical mistake on the British electorate's part the better.
The big question is whether what Cummings said is the truth or not. It's hard to tell; however when it's a case of Johnson vs pretty-much-anyone-else on who's being honest, I'll verge on the latter.
A fucking horrible sad mess. A real shame on the country.
Last edited by gogobongopop; 05-26-2021 at 02:26 PM.
It's hard to digest everything that's been said today. It's unprecedented. It'a incredible. It's mind-boggling. If it's true, Johnson and his entire cabinet should resign.
If it's not true they should disprove it by the end of play today.
They don't need to do anything, of course, because the British public will still wave their little flags and say he was just doing his best; and thus the Tories in their current incarnation remain completely untouchable thanks to a weak opposition and ridiculous democratic system.
I'm reminded of that Manic Street Preachers song - If you tolerate this your children will be next.
Had to take a break from the neverending hearing but some of the claims are truly incendiary. At the very least, Hancock is about to have a very bad time, esp. if (likely when) the officials Cumming mentions corroborate the claims about Hancock's lying and about their loss of confidence in his honesty. If Cummings's claims about his and others' advice to Johnson re. firing Hancock are corroborated, Johnson may have come dangerously close to misleading Parliament today. Even if the claims re. Johnson's consistent resistance to implementing lockdowns—not only before the first lockdown but also afterwards, to the point of saying they should never have had the first lockdown—are true, I believe Johnson will be able to lie his way out of accountability for those failures, unless others close to him decide to step forward. Much of what he's said has been well attested by the govt's and its advisors' official statements, as well as in numerous in-depth investigative reports in the media, so those claims might not move the needle either way... but still very interesting to get some insights into the groupthink governing the analyses, recommendations and actions of advisors. Seems very similar to what's happened in Sweden, so I hope our own commission is paying close attention to this testimony.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
This is honestly unlikely to have any lasting impact. Cummings statements are, if anything, too incendiary, so the Govt has no choice but to brazen it and and this they can very well do because all Cummings to back up statements is his word and... he's Dominic Cummings.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
I wouldn't believe anything he says unless it's backed up by some corroboration.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Absolutely essential to get testimony from cabinet secretary & deputy cabinet secretary at the time, and it would be scandalous if they were not heard. Cummings has enough documentation and specific claims that can—in theory—be corroborated by specified individuals that this can turn into a major headache for at least one rodent-like minister.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
The main corroboration is that it matches what was going on in the latter half of last year, as well as some of the reporting that was coming out around this time, e.g. the Times article. This doesn't mean we can trust is testimony in every detail, especially re: who said what and thought what, who was doing great vs who was shit (e.g. Sunak vs Hancock) and he almost certain embellished events to make himself look better, but that's only really relevant to Tory internal politics and potential Johnson successors. However the main thrust of his statement, that the government was in a state of chaos over the pandemic, some of which was driven by incompetence or laziness and some of which was driven by callousness, merely gives an insider's perspective on what we already either knew or strongly suspected.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Afaict the claims re. Hancock lying in meetings—and that dishonesty being explicitly recognized and criticized, in very strong terms, by senior officials—are new and very damaging. They can, at least in theory, be corroborated by said officials. The issue of sending patients back to care homes without testing—contrary to Hancock's assurances—may be especially easy to weaponize.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
https://www.ft.com/content/71bdca31-...8-89946372b22c
Just when you think Johnson can't get more pathetic, he does something this patheticRestarting process lets ex-Daily Mail editor — the UK prime minister’s preferred choice — reapply
[...]
Johnson told aides last summer that Dacre, a fierce critic of the BBC and online platforms, was his favoured candidate to chair the board of Ofcom, a regulator with a large and expanding remit over telecoms, media and the internet.
But after an interview round with four candidates, an independent assessment panel found Dacre to be “not appointable” — a recommendation that is given to ministers before a final decision is made on the job. The decision was unanimous but the reasons for that decision could not be established.
Rather than opting for alternative candidates deemed “appointable”, Johnson last week insisted on a rerun of the contest, according to two people familiar with the events. Oliver Dowden, the culture secretary, then wrote to Peter Riddell, the commissioner for public appointments, to inform him of the decision.
Restarting the process allows Dacre, a towering figure on Fleet Street who edited the Daily Mail for 26 years, to reapply for the position. Dacre still holds a position at DMG Media, the owner of the Daily Mail, and has plans to publish his memoirs. Ministers expect him to remain in the contest.
[...]
One media executive described the rerun decision as “an utter debacle” that capped what had been “an incompetent process”, with good candidates put off by leaks about the prime minister’s preferred choice.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
'The decision was unanimous but the reasons for that decision could not be established.'
Odd line. Either there are good reasons for the decision, in which case it should be established, or there's not in which case its not a valid decision.
For the record I don't like Dacre.
Twitter Link
Honestly though this probably happens to conservative MPs like all the time.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Hmm as metaphors go this is a bit on the nose innit
Twitter Link
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Why on earth did they make it look like that? The technology is cool and all but holy crap that thing is ugly.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
It looks like it already had a crash, because it's inevitable it will.
I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
Which is what I am
I aim at the stars
But sometimes I hit London
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