The border is solvable if both parties want to solve it.
If the EU has us under the kosh unless we agree to whatever they demand then it is an issue.
The Irish border isn't an issue. Putting out nuts into a vice and giving the EU the controls is an issue.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Who says the border (non)issue is solvable?
The kind pf language you're using makes me think that you don't trust the EU. Why is that?
Again - why not just accept the deal and then implement the new border controls/rules. You say it's not an issue, so what's the problem?
You also didn't answer my question about whether May's deal has everything you want, bar the backstop. Does it?
Please be explicit, because I don't understand your position.
The backstop as it is, is a purely British invention. And the reason for it is that you have signed up to the GFA and have a government dependent on the support of the DUP.
Congratulations America
The DUP hate the backstop.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
So?
Congratulations America
It's almost as if the EU has all the leverage, the exact opposite of what you've been claiming for years.
Hope is the denial of reality
I've forgotten why Brexit began in the first place. What was SO horrible about being an EU member....that the UK decided self-destruction was better? Seriously.
Excellent question.
Many of us in the UK are still waiting for an answer as to what was so horrible about the EU.
There are many reasons why Brexit began though. Media lies. Fake news. Politicians too afraid to praise the EU and celebrate its successes. People like RB who think the EU just isn't "right" for a nation like ours. David Cameron trying to crush UKIP and his Eurosceptics, and failing miserably. People using the EU as a scapegoat for the country's problems. Racism and nationalism. The list goes on; and in the end the majority of voters persuaded that the EU was so fundamentally bad, and that it couldn't be trusted, that it was worth giving up cushiest deal any country had.
But what you won't find is anyone able to put forward a compelling argument that leaving the EU will offer a better quality life, and that the benefits of this endeavour outweighs the costs.
I'd rather have Trump than Brexit.
No, you really don't want Trump! Maybe you'd rather have a constitutional government, instead of your parliament?
At least with Trump there's an end in sight. Normal service will be resumed in a few years and you'll get back to having a proper leader.
Brexit has no end
The damage Trump's done to American democracy will last long past his tenure as president, however long that turns out to be.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
Anyone expecting sudden change in 2020 (or 2024) is going to be sorely disappointed. There is no longer a Republican Party separate from the Cult of Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/u...can-party.html
Hope is the denial of reality
I think I have to agree with RandBlade that the UK and EU simply were an extremely ill fit. What the Brits never got though was that if you're the odd one out in a group of 28 nations you can't expect all the others to adapt to you.
One thing that gives me nightmares is no Brexit. For the simple reason that both Remainers and Brexiteers have no idea about what the EU is. They all work from the presumption that there is something terribly wrong with it. They just arrive at different conclusions. Neither is viable.
Congratulations America
Please enlighten us as to the true nature of the EU, oh great wise on.
There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
Asking the question makes my point.
Congratulations America
because brown people
What was SO horrible about the 13 Colonies being ruled by London?
Essentially? They tax us relentlessly, and King George turns around and runs a spending spree. He ain't never gonna set his descendants free, so there will be a revolution in this century.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
yes, damn those awful Europeans for invading the UK and ruling the British by force
I don't think you'll find it was the natives that rebelled against King George.
There's something missing from those results.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Don't those polls generally have a margin of error greater than 1%?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
The summary appears to be misleading. They've added together several options that aren't "no deal" and reported that as "leave with no deal". They've also excluded those who answered "don't know".
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No they haven't. Taken directly from YouGov's website, it is a forced choice question in the event that the EU refuses an extension [eg because Parliament has no firm proposal approved] and it comes down to a forced choice of Revoke vs No Deal, then the public prefer No Deal in that forced choice. Though yes its within margin of error, but the swing from last December/Jan is outside the margin of error and aligns with other polls that show the public is hardening and polarising its views. It's not unusual to exclude Don't Knows from headline figures.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...no-deal-brexit
Page 3 Question 4:
No Deal: 44%
Revoke: 42%
Don't Know: 13%
Original survey: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...n%20Brexit.pdf
Interestingly the most likely outcome as it stands (an extension) is backed by a mere 11% of respondents in the prior question. Page 3, Question 3.
No Deal: 40%
Extension: 11%
Revoke: 36%
Don't Know: 13%
So the 11% backing Extension split 4% to No Deal and 6% to Revoke with no increase in Don't Know [1% must vanish as a rounding error]. So far from adding multiple choice to No Deal, eliminating extension as an option helps Revoke catch up half its shortfall on No Deal.
There may be a tiny majority for no deal if the alternative is the government just unilaterally revoking article 50, but the other questions reveal the true most popular option is a second referendum, though there's still no majority for that. The country is like parliament, we don't know what the hell we want.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
How do you figure "the true most popular option is a second referendum", it depends entirely upon how you phrase the question.
37% backed a second referendum and voting to remain, whereas 49% gave some form of Brexit as their first choice just split across different options (whereas second referendum was the only remain option in that question).
Between the options that actually exist - revoke, no deal, or extend - no deal won with 40%
Well, it was the option that got the biggest number.
I see Mr. "Well, if The Options Were a No Deal Brexit, May's Deal or Nuclear War With China, No Deal has a clear majority" is suddenly concerned about how questions are phrased and what the options are.
The problem with this - besides your bizarre and arbitrary declaration that only those three options 'exist' - is that extend and to a lesser extent, revoke, aren't actually a solution to Brexit, just next steps. Like, if you want a second referendum, or a general election or an opportunity to really do anything other than no deal then you have to either extend article 50 or revoke it entirely. You can't just ask "extend article 50 or second referendum - pick one!"Between the options that actually exist - revoke, no deal, or extend - no deal won with 40%
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
37% is bigger than 40%? Or 44%?
Thank you for your input Mr Revoke = Nuclear War with China.I see Mr. "Well, if The Options Were a No Deal Brexit, May's Deal or Nuclear War With China, No Deal has a clear majority" is suddenly concerned about how questions are phrased and what the options are.
These are literally the only options if MPs don't pass May's deal. There are literally no other options.The problem with this - besides your bizarre and arbitrary declaration that only those three options 'exist' - is that extend and to a lesser extent, revoke, aren't actually a solution to Brexit, just next steps. Like, if you want a second referendum, or a general election or an opportunity to really do anything other than no deal then you have to either extend article 50 or revoke it entirely. You can't just ask "extend article 50 or second referendum - pick one!"
Your other question includes the hypothetical option "Britain leaving with an alternative deal ..." when no alternative deal exists and it would take an extension to negotiate an alternative deal.
The Article 50 period as it stands runs out in 8 days time. You can't have another referendum or a general election within 8 days. The fact you seem to end your paragraph acknowledging that you have to extend article 50 or revoke it rather confirms my point that those are the only 3 options available next week.
It's bigger than 26. Are you actually trying to compare the % for second referendum with the % no deal got in a totally different question?
Yeah, but assuming we don't no deal, then what? Were people saying revoke article 50 saying "just give up on Brexit entirely", or were they saying "Revoke Article 50 to buy time, then invoke it again when we've decided what we actually want to do".These are literally the only options if MPs don't pass May's deal. There are literally no other options.
Right, so the question you referenced is about the immediate next steps, the one I referenced is about finding the final outcome to Brexit.Your other question includes the hypothetical option "Britain leaving with an alternative deal ..." when no alternative deal exists and it would take an extension to negotiate an alternative deal.
The light that once I thought compassion still casting shadows in your action
The words you shared were cold transactions that bring me to curse what you've done
When you're up there absorbed in greatness with such success you've grown complacent
I hope you scorch your many faces when you fly too close to the sun
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