covid-19

[Being]

Come on! Fuck climate change! Economy is more important!

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...rices-79398131

Oil prices going up is good for the planet. Screw the impact on the economy. We've already shown the economy is a fairy tale that gets modified to meet our needs. Well right now we need to slow climate change. Just print some more fucking money to give to oil market investors. Print more money drill less oil. If you can't walk there don't fucking go there. If you're cold put on some fucking clothes.

[Aimless]

Week-long tantra festival in Sweden sees almost 20% of attendees infected, with numbers expected to rise. The arrangers can't decide whether it was right or wrong to go ahead with this event, not stopping even after 20 cases were identified among attendees. Stupid ain't sexy.

[Being]

Passive euthanasia entails the withholding of common treatments

Is that legal in Sweden?

[Aimless]

Is that legal in Sweden?

If that were the definition of passive euthanasia, it would be legal everywhere. You can find a better discussion here:

https://jme.bmj.com/content/31/2/64

[Being]

If that were the definition of passive euthanasia, it would be legal everywhere. You can find a better discussion here:

https://jme.bmj.com/content/31/2/64

To bring about the patient's death in the patient's own best interests I thought was obvious considering the circumstances.

[Aimless]

To bring about the patient's death in the patient's own best interests I thought was obvious considering the circumstances.

Withholding or withdrawing life-sustaining treatments and care is legal in pretty much the entire western world, including Sweden (and the US). You may see important differences wrt the extent to which physicians are permitted to do this when the patient's consent cannot be obtained (ie. non-voluntary "passive euthanasia"). In Sweden, physicians have a broad authority to withhold or withdraw treatment in a patient's (presumed) best interests—including eg. decisions about whether or not to send a patient to the hospital, admit to ICU, etc. During this pandemic—and esp. in the first wave—decisions to withhold supportive care likely brought about or hastened the deaths of many elderly who got covid. This has sparked a quiet scandal that's still—slowly—unfolding, but the scandalousness mostly arises from ethical rather than legal concerns, as it was not known (at the time) that many of these patients had a significantly better prognosis with the timely initiation of oxygen therapy, steroid therapy, and supportive care.

[GGT]

GGT you sound deranged. America is actually well ahead in vaccination rates compared to several countries including much of Eastern Europe (since I know you are probably ethnocentric and don't count South America or Africa).

We have enough vaccines for the entire eligible US population...but 25-30% are still not vaccinated *by choice*. Other countries who don't have enough vaccine, or the infrastructure to deliver them, would LOVE to get inoculated but don't have that *choice*.

It's the anti-vaxxers and science deniers that are deranged. I'm mad that they frame their ignorance as Freeeedom! and get away with it. With cover from political hacks like Rand Paul (a doctor?!), Marjorie Taylor Greene, et al. They're fucking things up for everyone (except the virus and its mutations) with their Give me Liberty or give me Death hogwash. I'm mad that they post disinformation on social media, but only get suspended for a week or two.

And it really pisses me off that Gov. DeSantis is fund-raising with "Don't Fauci My Florida" merchandise, while banning mask-mandates and equating masks with child abuse....when FL is responsible for ~1/5 of all new infections, and their hospitals are filling up. Including their pediatric ICUs.

Have your camera ready at the supermarket (or your baseball bat).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other...lnU?li=BBnb7Kz

Weird shit in Tennessee, too. Mobs attacking school board meetings, and threatening parents and officials. Yes, America, This is Us.

[GGT]

Addendum for Lewk, since you assumed I'm "ethnocentric":

The US has so much vaccine supply, we're either discarding/wasting expired doses, or sending our surplus to other countries. We have so much vaccine we can give third doses before some have had their first!

We're also helping to fund COVAX. https://www.who.int/initiatives/act-accelerator/covax. But it's not enough, IMO. The only "ethnocentric" aspect of my view is that rich first-world nations are hoarding the vaccines, and buying up so much supply -- at the expense of third world countries that *cough* just happen to have majority non-white populations -- that it's disappointing and even shameful that 1/3 of Americans still aren't vaccinated.

So what about you, Lewk? Have you "chosen" to get the shot because it's in your self-interest to avoid severe disease or hospitalization (or death), and also protect your family...or are you an anti-vaxxer?

[Lewkowski]

I get the flu shot every year, of course I got the vaccine (as did my family). Also... hoarding? Are you serious? What countries created the vaccine?

[Aimless]

Twitter Link

Interesting choice of treatment.

[Lewkowski]

Why interesting? Kind of designed for people like him (elderly).

[Loki]

And how many people did he infect because he couldn't be bothered to mask up?

[Lewkowski]

And how many people did he infect because he couldn't be bothered to mask up?

Maybe he believed this dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SkzTa8HRDk

"If you are fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask."

Or if you didn't catch it the first time...

"Let me repeat. If you are fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask."

[Steely Glint]

This guy?

[Loki]

Maybe he believed this dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SkzTa8HRDk

"If you are fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask."

Or if you didn't catch it the first time...

"Let me repeat. If you are fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask."

It's almost as if scientific guidance changes based on new information (and new Covid variants). Not everyone is into dogma, Lewk.

[Lewkowski]

It's almost as if scientific guidance changes based on new information (and new Covid variants). Not everyone is into dogma, Lewk.

So the CDC was incorrect with their guidance? They were wrong? They distributed information that turned out to be false?

[Ominous Gamer]

Do you understand how stupid you are making yourself look? Did you even bother to follow the timeline for when, why, and where the CDC updated their guidance?

[Loki]

So the CDC was incorrect with their guidance? They were wrong? They distributed information that turned out to be false?

Do you think science means making a decision and never revising it?

[Ominous Gamer]

Lewk throwing radium parties would explain a few things concerning his mental handicap

[Flixy]

Do you think science means making a decision and never revising it?

Not to mention that guidance which are correct when infection rates are pretty low might not be valid anymore when case numbers are surging.

And IIRC the delta variant turned out to be more contagious for vaccinated people than was known before.

[LittleFuzzy]

So the CDC was incorrect with their guidance? They were wrong? They distributed information that turned out to be false?

None of the above. The past two weeks in my area some days have had an air quality advisory due to smoke. Other days there's been no advisory. Because the precautions we should be taking depend on how bad conditions are at that precise time. And those conditions are subject to change.

[GGT]

Why interesting? Kind of designed for people like him (elderly).

"Interesting" because monoclonal antibody treatment is expensive, not readily available to the public in all states....and the smarter/easier way to prevent getting infected or infecting others would be to fucking wear a mask!

Yes, the mask guidance changed after the Delta variant proved to be so much easier to transmit. And the guidance changed for children after so many kids started getting seriously ill, and filling up pediatric ICUs. Medical guidance is *supposed* to change as the science does. Don't forget this is a NEW virus never seen in humans before.

Also "Interesting" since Abbott talks about personal responsibility, then chooses to be irresponsible, and makes laws preventing others from acting responsibly. He'd rather take an IV cocktail remedy than wear a mask?

[Being]

This is just getting hilarious! People would rather take pet dewormer than get vaccinated.

NOT Safe for People

How the fuck did these people make it this far in life?

[GGT]

That's not hilarious, it's sad and pathetic.

But these are the same people who might have tried hydroxychloroquine because Trump recommended it. And they get their medical advice from Facebook groups or Fox & Friends.

[GGT]

The FDA will reportedly give the Pfizer vaccine full approval/authorization on Monday. That's great news for the vaccine hold-outs who were waiting for that....but I have a hunch that several thousands will continue to refuse the vaccine, no matter what. And they'll also refuse to wear masks, calling it Medical Marxism, or other anti-factual nonsense.

Those people might be a minority, but they pose a danger to everyone else, and are just extending Covid's lifespan and mutation abilities. I'm angry and frustrated that they're holding the entire US population hostage because they have distorted ideas about Freeedom or Tyranny, and don't trust science or medical experts. We are so screwed.

[Lewkowski]

None of the above. The past two weeks in my area some days have had an air quality advisory due to smoke. Other days there's been no advisory. Because the precautions we should be taking depend on how bad conditions are at that precise time. And those conditions are subject to change.

What would it take for you to be convinced that they made a bad decision? What would it take for you to begin to distrust the CDC? Like if the weatherman told us there was a 90% chance of rain 20 days in a row and there wasn't rain in 20 days I'm not going to be putting any confidence in what he's saying but I'm curious as to what your threshold for the doubting of an establishment institution is for you.

[LittleFuzzy]

What would it take for you to be convinced that they made a bad decision? What would it take for you to begin to distrust the CDC? Like if the weatherman told us there was a 90% chance of rain 20 days in a row and there wasn't rain in 20 days I'm not going to be putting any confidence in what he's saying but I'm curious as to what your threshold for the doubting of an establishment institution is for you.

Well, if they start sounding like you, that would definitely rock any trust I had in them. What's interesting is that YOU were one of the people insisting that they were being too cautious in letting up on restrictions and lightening their advisories (in fact, I don't think there's been any stretch of time where you thought they were being permissive enough) and then when they did start going lighter because it looked like the vaccination program had made sufficient progress that the risks were reduced you didn't have anything bad to say. But when it became clear that the Delta variant still carried a high viral load in vaccinated people, something no one knew (since it wasn't around to test on during trials) and infections started spiking again leading to them making recommendations to slow and stop the spread of the disease again, suddenly you're howling once more.

Their "mistake" here was they weren't cautious enough and YOUR objection to them is about them being too cautious. The direction matters. To the extent we should have less trust in them, it's in when they say it's ok to be less concerned and take less precautions. When the new mask guidelines are rescinded, we should probably keep the mask mandates. And we should definitely be restricting businesses more. Thank you for that suggestion Lewk.

[Flixy]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/l...e-are-no-beds/

So, which party was about the death panels again?

[Ominous Gamer]

We've been warned to expect at least a 2 hour wait this morning to get tested so my kid can return to school this week.

[wiggin]

Sometimes I really appreciate living in Boston.

We attended a Zoom call the other evening where a consortium of local schools - one of which is where my daughter is starting kindergarten - was presenting their plan for reopening for in-person classes in two weeks. The call was run by the consortium's 'medical advisory board' they had put together to provide expert advice on reopening policies, and was composed entirely of parents of kids at the schools.

The board included: The head of critical care and the co-director of the biocontainment unit (first made for ebola, then repurposed for covid) at the best children's hospital in the world. Three infectious disease experts at globally renowned hospitals, including an expert in handling the covid response for immunocompromised patients and an expert in population level surveillance of outbreaks. A top clinician-researcher in pediatric pulmonology, and clinician in pediatric pulmonology critical care.

And these physicians were just parents who volunteered to pitch in and make a flexible, data-driven plan that would work for the entire consortium of schools. They made a solid case for the plan based on the available data to date and the school administrations seemed to be fully on board with executing to that plan - and it dovetailed closely with the Commonwealth's own guidance (some of these physicians also advise the governor on public health issues). It was immensely gratifying to hear and did a great job assuaging my concerns.

I can't imagine how badly this would have gone in a different political environment, or with a parent body that was less engaged or with less relevant expertise.

2021 update: one of the advisory board members is now on ACIP. So, that's encouraging.

I can't imagine what it would be like if I was sending my kids to school in a place like FL or TX.