FDA & CDC briefing:
Simplified int'l protocol:
https://www.un.org/sites/un2.un.org/...itguidance.pdf
Patients and physicians in third-world countries will be in a bind, due to limited access to diagnostic tests as well as to expensive treatments, but they can at least lower their risk of making things worse.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Fair point (about it being a lot of text).
TL;DR - It is interesting how very different the responses by regulators and politicians across the West have been.
They aren't approaching this in a similar path at all and it is quite interesting to note the alternative paths taken.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Incidentally of the various paths taken, since you say I support the MHRA/EMA paths because it matches my own opinion, based on your own independent opinion which if any of the very different paths would you prefer? Which, if any, would you think is foolish?
EMA - "Benefits outweigh risks"
MHRA - "Benefits outweigh risks, except for this group, so don't used for this group, everyone else continue to use"
FDA - "There's some risk though lower than the benefits, stop using it for now"
Macron etc (against EMA advice) - "Do not use it for the elderly. Stop using it. Start using it again. Stop using it again. Only use for the elderly".
I'm not sure. Is there a path where you don't heap superlatives on people you are in no position to really evaluate, after they've agreed with you, and pejoratives on similar people after they've disagreed with you? Because in typical fashion, you seem to be missing the point. The path is irrelevant.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
When very fundamental civil liberties are being suspended due to the threat of a virus that is killing thousands of people a day, the path taken is not irrelevant.
If the path is so irrelevant then lift lockdowns immediately and let people choose their own actions of their own free choice. Because clearly the pandemic is over if the path out is irrelevant, so there is no longer a justification to restrict people's civil liberties.
It's irrelevant to the subject of my post. Let me try again.
Gosh Mr Randblade, I don't know. If I choose a path, is it required that I call those choosing other paths foolish at best, while praising the intelligence, education, sagacity, noble humanitarian bearing, and general dilf/milf-itude of those who also selected the path I did? Because I don't feel anyone on this board is in a position to do those things (except to an extent with Macron since he's a just a politician). It just seems a little over the top, sir, particularly when, as in your case, you've previously castigated them and spoken pejorative of their standing on those same qualities when they've made calls you disagreed with in the recent past.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
Is it required? Pretty much, this is the internet afterall.
Though as it happens I'm not sure I have castigated the EMA or the FDA before - in fact I'm not sure if I've ever castigated the EMA, it is the politicians that have earned my criticism. The EMA have surprised me with their capability but they, like the MHRA, seem to be operating independently of politics. Unlike some others which I have criticised, the politicised ones.
Macron OTOH yes it pretty much goes with the territory. He has messed this up consistently and why should he and his stupid decisions not be subject to scrutiny?
PS while the paths taken have been wildly different its also worth noting how they've been presented. The MHRA stopping vaccinations for under-30s based on the data was announced by the MHRA at a Press Conference with the data. Macron stopping the vaccine rollout was announced by Macron - not the EMA or any other authority.
You seem to not understand the difference between advising and deciding.
Congratulations America
The French, having changed their dosing strategy from 4 weeks to 6 weeks, are now changing it to 6 months between first and second dose.
Good to see countries putting their pride aside and learning from elsewhere (especially after all the negative comments right from the top they've made) but 6 months instead of 3 is brave. Good luck to them.
Why would you describe it as brave? It's taking your argument to its logical conclusion.The French, having changed their dosing strategy from 4 weeks to 6 weeks, are now changing it to 6 months between first and second dose.
Good to see countries putting their pride aside and learning from elsewhere (especially after all the negative comments right from the top they've made) but 6 months instead of 3 is brave. Good luck to them.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Its brave because they were petrified of doing anything original when this was an issue earlier. They could now take the safe option of copying others that have gone before them knowing it works and there's no drop-off in antibodies within 12 weeks (since that data is now in), but rather than than copying what others have done before them they're doing their own thing that has not been tested.
Its brave for the same reason the UK strategy was brave at the time. Anyone who copies the UK strategy now is no longer brave, they're just following the path others have already shown to work.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
'shown to work'
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
You question that?
From Private Eye but well put:
Compared to the risk of a clot after a vaccine, you are six times more likely to be struck by lightning in your lifetime, 11 times more likely to die in a car accident each year ans 100 times more likely to get a blood clot if you use an oral contraceptive. If you are hospitalised with Covid, your risk of a clot is one in four...Some may decide to wait for more safety data to emerge or in the hope herd immunity will protect them without a vaccine. This strategy is much riskier than having the vaccine...Some people get unpleasant temporary side effects from vaccines. But the overall chance of dying, as with just about every modern vaccine, is around one in a million. Paracetamol is much more of a risk.
My comment had nothing to do with safety or relative risk but of efficacy.
"When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)
Yes and it has been shown to be efficacious.
Despite EMA's reluctance to approve changes to the dosing schedule, France has decided on a six week interval between the first and second dose, for the mRNA vaccines, following the general trend:
https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...ut-2021-04-12/
Guessing this primarily applies to vaccination of low-risk groups.
Denmark has abandoned AZN's vaccine altogether. Here in Sweden, those of us young'uns who've received the first dose of AZN's vaccine may end up being offered a type of heterologous prime-boost protocol with two doses of one of the mRNA vaccines (still just speculative, so it's unclear whether one of these doses would be a modified version covering one or several of the most important variants).
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
MHRA has released updated figures (up to April 5) indicating at least 100 known cases of VIPIT/VITT, and at least 22 known deaths:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...w-card-reports
Should be a few more by now, not including those that have slipped under the radar due to lack of a diagnosis or due to inadequate reporting. Looking at a lower bound for incidence of roughly 5/million over a very short period of time (adjusted incidence probably comparable to estimates of incidence of "ordinary" CVST among people using some types of hormonal contraceptives). Some of these people might (and may) have been helped by the info that has come to light about this syndrome in the past few weeks re. diagnostic approach and treatment protocol; we didn't stand a chance, sadly. I think some teams are are trying to look at indicators of a similar autoimmune response among the vaccinated more broadly—ie. even among those who haven't developed the syndrome—but I guess they're likely to come up empty handed.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I got the feeling that Aimless nailed it; the availability of Pfizer vaccination could be very relevant. Not only does it not have the negative image of the AZN vaccine, but it might actually help the EU to catch up dramatically in the drive to get everyone vaccinated much sooner than if we'd rely on AZN.
Congratulations America
Dept. of Public Health made an announcement this week that has (understandably) been interpreted as encouragement to hang out with people from different households, go shopping in stores, visit relatives etc. starting 3 weeks after getting the first dose of covid vaccine. People vaccinated with Vaxzevria probably constitute the largest group to which this info will apply, and it's now being deployed to less frail elderly (community-dwelling elderly > 65y)—who have received this encouragement with great excitement. Meanwhile, growing numbers of HCWs—esp. in covid hotspots, obv—are reporting that they themselves have gotten covid over a month after getting the first dose of Vaxzevria (typically ~6wks after, possibly coinciding with a particularly large vaccination drive in that group). No systematically gathered data yet, for this group. But it's a useful illustration of the dangers of prematurely loosening restrictions (ie. while number of cases remains high).
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Second AZN jab received today.
Really really hope the side effects are easier on me this time. Got chemo scheduled for Thursday and need to be fit on the Tuesday for the pre-chemo bloods and obs check.
But that's it. Next week, for the first time in over a year, I'm going to go into a supermarket and and browse things. I will also leave with the biggest Toblerone they sell, a seriously big bag of Roast Beef Monster Munch and a large packet of chocolate hob-nobs.
Twitter Link
He has a point
damn it now all I can think about is toblerone
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Enjoy
Congratulations America
Happy for you that you've got your second vaccine, enjoy heading back into the real world.
Went to a pub for the first time since the pandemic began today for a roast and a pint, while seeing my parents. Was lovely to see them again and engage with the real world again, also good to see how busy the place was considering it was outdoors only and pretty cold. Good to start to get back to normal as we put the pandemic behind us.
Bog roll. Don't forget bog roll.
Yes, does have a feeling of progressing normality here.Happy for you that you've got your second vaccine, enjoy heading back into the real world.
Went to a pub for the first time since the pandemic began today for a roast and a pint, while seeing my parents. Was lovely to see them again and engage with the real world again, also good to see how busy the place was considering it was outdoors only and pretty cold. Good to start to get back to normal as we put the pandemic behind us.
We too had a visit to my wife's parent's, in Argyll, over the weekend. Involved a flight from Gatwick up to Glasgow for us. Both airports were >90% empty, very few flights on the boards, flight itself was around a third full.
We had a medical letter granting permission for us to travel (my wife's mother is terminally ill, so dispensation is allowed). However, at no point were we asked why we were travelling nor if we had any special dispensation.
My wife and I also took a lateral-flow test at home before we traveled - results in 30 minutes - just to confirm we were covid-negative before jumping on a plane.
Gatwick Departures :
In case anyone was still uncertain about the remarkably successful life-saving nature of the Astrazeneca vaccine - or the wisdom and success of a one dose for everyone vulnerable strategy, some absolutely jaw dropping data from the UK today: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...d-vaccination/
Since September last year more than 74,000 people have been admitted to hospital in this country with Covid symptoms.
Of those a grand total of 32 had been vaccinated (one dose) at least 3 weeks prior.
Not 32 hundred, not 3.2%, just 32 people in total out of 74,000.
Unless there's a mistake in the data here, that is absolutely stunningly successful from one dose of either Pfizer or Astrazeneca. There should be absolutely no doubt whatsoever that getting one dose to as many people as possible works and ends the pandemic. That's an almost 100% success rate from the tens of millions of vaccines given out already.
Also no justification whatsoever for continuing domestic restrictions in this nation once we're done with the vaccine rollout. I'm disappointed how slow lifting lockdown is, but there's no justification for vaccine passports, social distancing or anything else domestically once vaccinations are done.
French Health Minister Olivier Véran: “The risk of a blood clot from flying across the Atlantic is 50 times higher than from having the AstraZeneca vaccine.”
Smart words from the Health Minister at a time that France Is reporting consistently over 30k Covid cases per day.
What a shame some unscientific antivaxxers and political idiots decided to trash the reputation of this safe and efficacious vaccine rather than listening to the scientific experts who never said to stop using it?
For shame on all those who chose to play politics over this.
Terrible images coming out of India where it seems to have gone from nowhere to OMG HOLY SHIT in a couple of weeks. Reports of cities running out of Oxygen for their hospitals.
Only just gone into Lockdown too, so it could get worse before it gets better.
The mad thing is despite not having been vaccinated yet, they were celebrating like they'd beaten this thing only a month ago. England Cricket Team were playing against India a month ago with 60,000 fans in the stadium which looked so alien for us now but is apparently normal there at the time. Worrying now.
Over 300k cases today, well over 200k yesterday. Even accounting for their much higher population, when you consider they're not testing much per capita either and the positivity rate is through the roof, this is really out of control.
Horrific indeed.
At work we have a very large representation of colleagues based in India. As of this morning 9 direct or indirect colleagues of mine have Covid. 1 is not suffering beyond mild fatigue, 8 are much more serious with some I understand on oxygen.
Many there cannot be hospitalised either, due firstly to a lack of beds, and secondly that one must present a positive Covid test result being admitted - testing is not prevalent there yet so obtaining one is a challenge. One (UK-based) colleague was telling me last night that his sister and parents (all living in India) are all assumed Covid-positive and suffering serious symptoms. The sister, while suffering herself, has been frantically trying to obtain a test for the parents so that they can be admitted to hospital.
Such is our dependence on India resources, we have one major Project on hold due to sickness, and two other major Projects at risk.
While the UK is emerging from this pandemic and there is a great sense of optimism here, this stands as a stark reminder how bloody fucking awful this disease is and how far we are from overcoming it.
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